googleboy5 wrote:There is a whole moral and wisdom behind this story, and the wisdom behind this story is that if we are afflicted with some sort of evil then we must look and turn to Allah for the help and cure, because Allah is the only one who can protect and save us. This is the entire basis of this incident, that we put all our faith and trust in Allah.

Great moral. What a prophet who was not guarded by Allah. You wrote that the magic did not work on Mohammed.

googleboy5 wrote:Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils."

It clearly says:

1. "What is the ailment of this man?" If magic did not work then why was he sick?
   
2. "Who has bewitched him"? The name is given 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam'. If the magic did not work then why the name is mentioned?
   
3. "A comb, the hair gathered on it and the outer skin..." Whose hair were gathered in the comb?

Look at this
Muhammad’s bewitchment contradicts Allah’s promise that Satan will not be able to have any authority over his servants:

Surely, as regards My servants, YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER THEM except those who follow you of the deviators. Koran 15:42

When thou recitest the Koran, seek refuge in God from the accursed Satan; he has no authority over those who believe and trust in their Lord; his authority is over those who take him for their friend and ascribe associates to God. Koran 16:98-100

Moral of the story
Satan harmed Mohammed and Allah did not keep his promise. You say his bewitchment does not affect revelation but it does. It contradicts allah's claim of shelter against satan. If allah cannot gaurd his (as you all say) beloved prophet then Koran is no revelation for it did not work in Mohammed's life.

Conclusion

1. Allah promised that Satan would have no power over his true servants.
   
2. Muhammad was supposedly a true servant of God, and yet fell under Satan’s control.
   
3. Therefore, Allah wasn’t powerful enough to prevent his servant from falling under Satan’s authority and shows that Allah isn’t capable of fully keeping his promises.

"The seventy returned with joy, saying, ‘Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!’ And he said to them, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall hurt you. Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.’" Luke 10:17-20

Even to the disciples of Jesus, satan was subject to them for Jesus gave them power and authority. For Mohammed no power and authority and he was delusional and had sexual experiences. What a magic - must be favorite of Mohammed's.

You have great ability to misquote things totally out of context. What has temptation to do being bewitched? Everyone is tempted, even Jesus was tempted and He showed us how to defeat satan by quoting God's Word. Let me ask you, did anyone cast magic spell on Jesus?

There is a huge difference in being tempted and being under the magic spell. In temptation satan tries to over power a person but God protects if that person is a true follower. Under magic spell, satan over powers a person and that is why magic spell is successful because God's protection is not around that person.

ChristianLady wrote:Surely, as regards My servants, YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER THEM except those who follow you of the deviators. Koran 15:42

This verse talks of life on earth and life after. The question now here is that according to Koran 15:42, and according to the incident of a Jew casting a magic spell on Mohammed, did satan had authority over Mohammed for a period of time? If so then the promise of Allah failed.

second question

Narrated Hisham's father: ‘Aisha said, "Allah’s Apostle was bewitched, so he invoked Allah repeatedly requesting Him to cure him from that magic)."... (Hadith No. 658, Vol. 7) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 400)

Why Mohammed had to repeatedly request Allah to cure him from magic? Did Allah fail him?

Thank you again for quoting your ignorance for you do not read Bible and you just watch videos of Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat. You really make it easy for me to answer all your false allegations.

You quoted James 1:13 and wrote

Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:(so Jesus had evil desires when he was tempted!!),..How can Jesus be the Creator of the Universe when he was tempted by satan??!!!

First of all, do not insert your opinion in the verse to deceive others and let me quote the whole verse for you:

Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one being tempted say, I am tempted from God. For God is not tempted by evils, and He tempts no one. But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death. (James 1:12-15)

The verse says that "Blessed is the man who endures temptation". The verse simply says that when some sins (here it is lust - sexual and for worldly things), he or she may not put blame on God that He tempted them because it was their own lust that made them do this. For when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin and when someone commits sin and then justifies it, it brings death on that person. Like in this modern world, people blame God for everything.

Now coming to Jesus' temptation by satan:

Satan speaking
And the Devil said to Him, If you are the Son of God, speak to this stone that it might become bread. (Luke 4:3)

Jesus' Reply
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written that "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word of God." (Luke 4:4)

Jesus spoke the Word of God to satan and showed us that satan has no power over us if we remember the Word of God. Mohammed as stated in (Hadith No. 658, Vol. 7) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 400) repeatedly requested Allah to cure him of the magic. Why didn't he speak Koran to satan and get healed?

Satan speaking
And the Devil, leading Him up into a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the Devil said to Him, All this power I will give you, and the glory of them; for it has been delivered to me. And I give it to whomever I will. Therefore if you will worship me, all shall be yours. (Luke 4:5-7)[/b]

Jesus' Reply
[color=blue]And Jesus answered and said to him, Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve." (Luke 4:8)

Jesus commanded satan, why couldn't Mohammed do so and why he had to repeat his requests to Allah to heal him?

Satan speaking
And he brought Him to Jerusalem and sat Him on a pinnacle of the temple and said to Him, If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down from here. For it is written, "He shall give His angels charge over You, to keep You; and in their hands they shall bear You up, lest at any time You dash Your foot against a stone." (Luke 4:9-11)

Jesus' Reply
And Jesus answering said to him, It has been said, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God." (Luke 4:12)

Jesus taught us how to fight satan because after satan tried Jesus and finding no way to over power him with his lies, he left Jesus. This whole story tells us how to live our lives when satan tries to deceive us. It is necessary for Allah to put Mohammed under magic spell to teach you that in trouble you have to seek Allah's help? Don't you know this by faith?

Now coming to the bewitchment of Mohammed, I will quote the Bible here,

But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them. Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death. (James 1:15)

Now let us look at the story of Mohammed as his wife Ayesha quoted
Narrated Aisha:Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O ‘Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other, ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied he is under the effect of magic. The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-A’sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’ The first one asked, ‘Where (is that)?’ The other replied, ‘In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan.’" So the Prophet went to that well and took out those things and said, "That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream). Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet added, "Then that thing was taken out." I said (to the Prophet) "Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I dislike to let evil spread among my people." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660)

The verse you have quoted from the Bible of James 1:13, Mohammed dreamt of sexual intercourse with his wives when he had not. Now the verse you quoted says that it is a man's lust that makes him fall. And then that desire makes a person to sin and to die.

How can you compare Mohammed's bewitchment with Jesus' temptation? Jesus came out victorious telling us how to stand in front of satan by quoting the verses from the Bible. In the end Jesus simply commanded satan to leave Him and he did so. Why couldn't Mohammed do so? Mohammed was under magic spell and he begged repeatedly to Allah to cure him. Why was satan able to over power him? Was it due to his lust as the Bible puts?

Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:can you explain to me why we find this erotic imagery and inappropriate language in the bible would it be appropriate for a parent to rent a pornographic video and show it to his children below 8 years old, and all the time saying, “Do
not commit fornication, it is an evil and a sin to do so”? Would anyone in their right mind do such a thing?

Maybe the eight year old may not have such sick mind like yours. You will object to this because you will have fornication and sexual pleasures before the very eyes of your Allah in paradise.

Anyhow, God has only used human language and has showed how disgraceful are the actions of kingdom of Judah and Israel in His sight. The whole imagery here talks of how God hates idolatry to the extent that He calls idolaters as whores. Idolaters being in sin as whores expose their intentions.

In short, Ezekiel 23:1-49. Israel's and Judah's Sin and Punishment Are Parabolically Portrayed under the Names Aholah and Aholibah.

The imagery is similar to that in the sixteenth chapter; but here the reference is not as there so much to the breach of the spiritual marriage covenant with God by the people's idolatries, as by their worldly spirit, and their trusting to alliances with the heathen for safety, rather than to God.

You should be more worried about the prophet you follow:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do 'azl with them. We then asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born. (emphasis added) Sahih Muslim Book 8 Number 3373

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. Sahih Muslim Book 8 Number 3371

Your ignorance has made you think foolishly.

Dear brother, I do not know what are you trying to prove. If you think that Koran is word of God then believe with all your heart and soul. Practice your religion with all your heart and soul and search for spirituality as your religion instructs you. I believe debates will not benefit you as you will get more and more negative.

Ezekiel 23 as have tried to show does not promote any nudity but - In this parable, Samaria and Israel bear the name Aholah, "her own tabernacle;" because the places of worship those kingdoms had, were of their own devising. Jerusalem and Judah bear the name of Aholibah, "my tabernacle is in her," because their temple was the place which God himself had chosen, to put his name there. The language and figures are according to those times. Will not such humbling representations of nature keep open perpetual repentance and sorrow in the soul, hiding pride from our eyes, and taking us from self-righteousness? Will it not also prompt the soul to look to God continually for grace, that by his Holy Spirit we may mortify the deeds of the body, and live in holy conversation and godliness?

I do not find anything so crude the way you are putting. You cannot win anyone with hatred but with love only.

Ezekiel 23:1-4

Oholah symbolizes Samaria, which in turn represents Israel—the northern ten tribes. Oholibah symbolizes Jerusalem, which in turn represents Judah—the southern two tribes.

It also becomes clear from these two chapters that the symbolism (woman=city, nation) also symbolizes women of vile character and reputation, even though at times the symbol might represent the church that the blood of Jesus Christ has made clean.

Isaiah, Jeremiah, and especially Ezekiel and Hosea use this same metaphorical form to illustrate Israel's faithless relationship with God, connecting directly to the same usage in Revelation 17 and 18. Why is this important? Virtually the entire Bible is devoted to God's purpose for and relationship to Israel and the church. They are the focus of God's intention to reproduce Himself, beginning with His promises and then His covenant with Abraham. God went so far as to enter into a symbolic marriage with Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham, revealing the intimacy He considered their relationship to have.

He did this with no other nation. Even when the time came to summon Gentiles into His purpose, the great bulk of those called into the church have been Israelites dwelling among fellow Israelites in Israelitish lands. A person even becomes a spiritual Jew when converted! God's pattern of focusing on Israel continues throughout the Bible to the end-time prophecies. We live in the end time, and God's concern in Revelation, the ultimate end-time book, does not turn from this pattern. God's purpose for the nation of Israel is not yet complete, as Romans 9-11 makes clear.

Thus Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham, and the church, the Israel of God, Abraham's spiritual descendants, are still His major focus. Other parts of the Bible reveal that Israel has fully earned the title of "the Great Harlot Babylon" even as she has earned the titles of "Sodom" and "Egypt."

The Great Harlot of Revelation 17 and 18 is not a Gentile church or a Gentile nation because neither of these has ever qualified for that title by corrupting a covenant relationship with God as Israel has. Of this, God says in Amos 3:2, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." Having done only what comes naturally without the revelation of God, the Gentile world will have its opportunity to have a covenant relationship with Him following Christ's return.

In defiance of God, Israel has rebelled against her responsibilities and played the harlot with the world. She has embraced its ways to such an extent that she has outdone the Gentiles in their manner of life, becoming appropriately named "Babylon the Great." In Revelation 17 and 18, God is describing the influence and character of end-time Israel. He depicts all of Israel in close relationship with the Beast, influencing it, but with the two Joseph tribes, America (Manasseh) and Britain (Ephraim), as the Woman's strongest components—and perhaps America is the one primarily described, as it is the most influential at the end.

Source: Forerunner Commentary

The Context of Ezekiel 23

In Ezekiel 23, the prophet condemns the immorality of both Samaria of Northern Israel (23:4,5-10) and Jerusalem of Judah (23:4,11-21). In summarizing the history of these Israelite cities, God likens them to two sisters who became harlots at a young age (23:3,19) and continued their practice to an old age (23:43). Instead of being faithful to God, they constantly turned their affections to nations like Egypt (23:3) and embraced all of their idols and false worship.

The people of Samaria also became infatuated with the might and religion of Assyria (23:5-7), and incorporated its immorality into their lives. Meanwhile they never gave up their lust for Egypt (23:8).

God would punish Samaria by delivering her "into the hands of the Assyrians, for whom she lusted" (23:9-10). In other words, God allowed this foreign nation, with whom she was fascinated, to execute judgment upon her for her sin.

At the time Ezekiel spoke these words, the nation of Samaria had already been punished for its sin and destroyed by the Assyrians. The prophet speaks of this as an example lesson to the Israelites in Jerusalem. He then declared that Jerusalem herself had become defiled by a lust for the sin of Egypt (23:19-21), Assyria (23:12) and Babylon (23:14-18). She not only followed in "the same way" of unfaithfulness as her sister Samaria (23:13), she became more corrupt (23:11). Thus God would likewise punish her (23:22-35). As God sent the Assyrians to destroy Samaria in 721 B.C., He sent the Babylonians to level Jerusalem in 586 B.C.

Idolatry is symbolized as "Adultery" as we see its application in:

Jeremiah 3:8-9
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

Jeremiah 5:7
How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.

Ezekiel 23:37
Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more.

This whole chapter implies disgraceful act of kingdoms of Israel and Judah and God showed their actions as lewdness. Even to this day lewdness is a great disrespect to towards any person or nation. Ezekiel 23 is only a simile and does not promote pornography and moreover, God above all these things. First try to understand the context and the language and how language was used in those times.