Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

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Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  sophie on Thu 27 Dec 2007, 1:33 pm

Falsehood has my vote. You know those magazines you see when standing in line at the grocery check-out? I'm talking about the ones that have stories about three-headed monkies and alien abductions and Britney spears giving birth to a dog-headed child.

You don't believe any of those stories, right? Why not? Because they are just too fantastical to be true.

The whole notion of the Trinity leaves all of those stories in the dust... it is MUCH more fantastical than ANY of them.

So given that there is exactly zero evidence supporting any of the Bible's claims about the Trinity and that nobody believes the fantastical claims made in check-out tabloids, it only seems reasonable to conclude that the even more fantastical story about the Trinity also shouldn't be believed.

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Explaining The Trinity

Post  Guest on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 2:31 am

Sophie. For those who do not look for-- or want truth, than
all I can say to you is, that no truth will ever be enough for you. Obviously,
you are not reading God’s word. How sad for it says that Jesus is the exact
image of the father. Jesus said of people like you. If you would of known the
father you would of believe in Me for he and the Father are one. Enough of this
there is enough material in this forum about who God is and who Jesus and the
Holy Spirit is: If you are not convince by that, than no proof will tickle
your-- fancy. Anastasia Martone


Explaining The
Trinity


This is my explanation of the Holy Trinity of God. John 14:8-10 says {
Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for
us.'' Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you
have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can
you say, `Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am
in the Father, and the Father in Me?}
We as humans have a body-a
soul-and if you are saved you have a Holy Spirit. Just like God, God is made up
of three parts too. He has a body-soul and spirit. God the Father is the soul,
Jesus Christ is the body of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit part of God.
But because He is God, He can be in three different places at once. The Soul
part of the God head which is God the Father is in Heaven while God the Son can
be on earth, while the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, which means covers the whole
earth all at once, everywhere at the same moment in time.
This is found in Isaiah 11:9 { for the earth shall be
full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.}
Then
in Luke 5:20 says
So when He saw their faith, He said to him, "Man, your sins are
forgiven you.'' And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason,
saying, "Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God
alone?''
You see even the Jews knew That only God could forgive sins,
this came from Psalms 130:4 This is the best way I think any human can
look at the Trinity to understand it, although we won’t fully understand it
until we are in Heaven with God, then all things will be fully understood as
Paul says in 1 Corinthians13:12 { In the same way, we can see and
understand only a little about God now, as if we were peering at his reflection
in a poor mirror; but someday we are going to see him in his completeness, face
to face. Now all that I know is hazy and blurred, but then I will see
everything clearly, just as clearly as God sees into my heart right now. Living
Bible}
God calls us to be like him -1 Peter 1:16 { because it
is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.'
God is not willing that
anyone perish 2 Peter 3:9 {He isn't really being slow about his
promised return, even though it sometimes seems that way. But he is waiting,
for the good reason that he is not willing that any should perish, and he is
giving more time for sinners to repent.
Hell is the place prepared for
the Devil and his angels, Matthew 25:41
{ "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, `Depart from Me,
you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.}
The
punishment must fit the crime, Hell is a fitting punishment for rejecting God’s
Love, rejecting God's Lamb, and rejecting God’s sacrifice. It is so easy to get
saved, God made it so that you do not have to work your way into Heaven, the
key to heaven is free, which is to confess –accept- and believe in His Son.
In order to be saved you {must} believe that Jesus is the
Almighty creator God who made the heavens and the earth and everything in
them. If you don’t believe this, you are not a Christian!


Lee Martone

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  thirsty on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 9:03 pm

Whether it is fact or fiction, who has given you the right to come and use rude language about our faith. Trinity is a fact and if you don't like it you should not follow it. I admit it is a mystery and God can alone explain it.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  sophie on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 9:08 pm

Lee and Thirsty, read my question carefully, I wrote
So given that there is exactly zero evidence supporting any of the Bible's claims about the Trinity and that nobody believes the fantastical claims made in check-out tabloids, it only seems reasonable to conclude that the even more fantastical story about the Trinity also shouldn't be believed.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  gil on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 9:11 pm

Even if I don't have the answer, I still believe in Trinity. I have never seen God but I still believe in it. I think you are just here to put confusion among the believers. Last time you wrote a stupid post on Christmas and all your challenge went to waste. Again you will surely face shame. I can only pray for you.

God bless you

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  ChristianLady on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 10:54 pm

References to Trinity

A few verses directly reference the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:

  • Mathew 3:16–17: "As soon as Jesus Christ was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and landing on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.' " (also Mark 1:10–11; Luke 3:22; John 1:23)
  • Mathew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".
  • 2 Corinthians 13:14: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with all of you."
  • 1 John 5:7–8: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
  • Luke 1:25: "The angel answered and said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.' "
  • Hebrews 9:14: "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!"

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  sophie on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 10:57 pm

I think you are not reading what I am saying, show me verses from The Bible that includes Old and New Testaments.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 6:35 pm

Dear Sophie

I think that you have just joined this CHRISTIAN TALK to put confusion and division. I don't even care to answer your posts as they have no truth whatsoever. If you have a question regarding any concern, I would suggest - NO wait - I TELL you, to use polite language. You are attacking what we believe in and if you don't believe then go to some other forum and use your hate there, where there will be many like you.

I am not unzealous like others, and I do take blasphemy very seriously. You questions are welcomed but only in a polite language.

God bless you

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 6:38 pm

Hey Sophie.
I am glad you asked. For every Christian is here to help you as long as you
hunger for the truth. Isaiah 14. {
"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall
conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.} Which means God with us. Isaiah
9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller,
The mighty God, the
everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.} Who
is the Mighty God.
Hear O Israel the Lord
your God is one.
Isaiah 52:6-7 Therefore my people shall know my name: ( who is he talking about when he said my
name
)therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth
speak: behold, it is I. How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him
that brings good tidings, that publishes peace; that brings good tidings of
good, that publishes salvation; that Yahweh speaks unto Zion, Your God reigns! Is it not Jesus who will reign and rule the world. Isaiah
:5212-15 For you are not to hurry away, you
are not to leave like fugitives. No, Yahweh marches at your head and the God of
Israel is your rearguard. Who is the
God of Israel?
Fourth song of the servant Look, my servant will prosper,will grow great, will rise to
great heights. As many people were aghast at him, he was so inhumanly
disfigured that he no longer looked like a man,
so many nations will be astonished



and
kings will stay tight-lipped before him, seeing what had never been told them, learning
what they had not heard before.} Isaiah 54:5 For your Creator is your husband, Yahweh
Sabaoth is his name, the Holy One of Israel is your redeemer, he is called God
of the whole world. Most of these
verses are taking out of the New Jerusalem with Apocrypha, so that you know
that every time the Bible referes to the Lord it means Yahweh--God.

Isaiah 54:9-10{
For me it will be as in the days of Noah when I swore that Noah's
waters should never flood the world again. So now I swear never to be angry
with you and never to rebuke you again. For the mountains may go away and the
hills may totter, but my faithful love will never leave you, my covenant of
peace will never totter, says Yahweh who takes pity on you.} Did not Jesus said the same I will never
leave you or forsake you?
Sophie My prayer for you is this That Yahweh,
will open your eyes today. Ask him to remove the bandage from your eyes and you
will see. For by you asking I have perceived that you are a truth seeker, and
that is good. I think the Christian lady did a beautiful job and I cannot
topple it. Thank you Christian lady for trying to make her realized that
salvation to me starts when your eyes are fully open God be with you in this
search for the truth. We will be here for you as long as you do not mock our Lord, and it seems that way, by the way you ask. Do correct us if we are wrong in our way of judging you. If this does not help you than nothing will. As I have said the Christian Lady has explain very clear to you the fact of three persons in one.Anastasia Martone.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  sophie on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 7:35 pm

I do not like Christians who follow pagan rituals. I put up a question for all of you and yet no one has been able to convince me. I have read in many religions the concept of Trinity, then why should I believe in what others also believe in? This is a question that make you all think. This is my challenge to all of you here to prove it to me and to others. Accept the challenge or stop with your suggestions. I know no one will have an answer to this thought provoking question.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  lovingdove on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 7:40 pm

Who are you that we should convince you? This forum is a facility provided for Christians to share their thoughts, and this forum is not your right that you sign in and start writing what ever comes to your mind. We all accept your challenge here.

In Christ

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  THE ROCK on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 7:50 pm

The doctrine of Trinity teaches that God exists in three persons who share the same essence or being. What this means is that God exists in the distinct and co-equal persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they share a fully divine essence or being, such as uncreatedness, eternality, simplicity (non-composite or indivisible), immutability (unchangeableness), omniscience (all wise and knowing), omnipotence (all powerful), goodness, mercy, holiness, will and freedom, and so on.

Therefore, in God, the attributes of his essence are fully shared by three persons, making each person fully God.Yet, the three persons are distinct. The Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit; the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

But, to repeat, the three persons share the same essence. That is, the Father and Son and Holy Spirit duplicate the same attributes. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equally wise and merciful and holy; one is not more wise or merciful or holy than the other. Augustine says: "These three have the same eternal nature, the same unchangeableness, the same majesty, the same power".

I hope this meets your so called challenge.

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 7:53 pm

Sophie we all try hard to give you truth. Now go read the Watch Tower and believe what
they say, since you rather believe mans words than God's word. We do not
welcome snobs as you here. We all accept Jesus to be God and that is all!
Anastasia

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 10:13 pm

You are too fond of challenges and here I am accepting your challenge. You can throw any challenge you want and I will be here to accept any kind of challenge.

Today, I will answer all the questions that are dubbed as pagan rituals, like Christmas, Easter, and Trinity. If you have more questions, you are more than welcome.

I divide the religious world history in two parts:

  1. Pre Crucifixion Era
  2. Post Crucifixion Era

Pre Crucifixion Era

So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the
livestock
and all the wild animals!...
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel (Genesis 3:14-16)

This is taken as prophecy that Jesus will defeat satan and destroy all the works of evil. As it was directly spoken to satan, he knew that one day Son of God will come as a Savior and destroy all his evil works. How his evil works will be destroyed by Jesus, was not known to satan.

Therefore, satan tried to deceive the world with many such fake sons of gods, who would be saviors. You can see that every faith, before the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, had a father god, who sent his son to be the savior. In many pre-crucifixion religions, we find that there is father god, mother god, and son god. Like many use this phrase mother nature.

Then satan tried to demean the practise of sacrifice. We find many gods who demanded blood sacrifice by their worshippers. This was again used as deception by satan to deceive people from the truth.

The concept of Trinity was also present in pre-crucifixion religions and faiths. Similarly, the concept of a virgin birth was there and you see many religions practising this.

In most of the faiths, that were being practised before crucifixion of Jesus Christ, heavens had this picture, father god and mother god sitting on the throne, and satan is shown as a naughty being who amuses father god and mother god with his small pranks.

So before crucifixion, satan tried to deceive the world by giving various faiths but all the faiths, had a father god, a son god to be savior and mother god. Mother god was the power. Satan tried to distort the concept of Trinity, and sacrifice.

Post Crucifixion Era

Now when satan was defeated, he changed his policy of distorting the true meaning of Trinity, sacrifice and divinity. Then he went all out for denial. Now we have muslims and athiests, who simply say, crucifixion never happened. There was no resurrection and allah replaced Jesus with an other person.

In Post Crucifixion Era, we are told, Christmas is pagan, Easter is pagan and Trinity is pagan. Actually, here we are just admitting to satan's denial of his failure at the hands of Jesus on the cross. So all who believe that Christmas is pagan ritual, Easter is pagan ritual and Trinity is pagan concept are infact, following satan.

Trinity is no pagan concept. Yes I admit, the word Trinity is not used in the Bible, but does it make any difference? Absolutely NOT. ACtually Trinity starts in the very first Book of Bible, the Genesis.
The God said, let us make man in our own image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock...(Genesis 1:26-27)

Let me explain Trinity now to you:
He made the earth by His power;
He founded the world by His wisdom
and stretched out the heavens by
His understanding (Jeremiah 51:15)

Now remember when the Bible says GOD it means Heavenly Father and when Bible says LORD God it means Jesus Christ.

He made the earth by His power

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3)

Now watch the words in the verse 3, it says And God said, it does not say and God made light.

He founded the world by His wisdom

God saw that light was good...(Genesis 1:4)

God commanded but who do it? It was Jesus Christ, the wisdom who did it for God the Father.
Through Him (Jesus) all things were made; without Him (Jesus) nothing was made. (John 1:3)

and stretched out the heavens bu His understanding

Holy Spirit gives us understanding as Jesus tells the apostles something really incredible and something that the apostles did not want to hear. In John 16:5 he tells them, "But now I am going to Him that sent me." And in John 16:7, Jesus then tells them something very strange and something that the apostles could not even begin to understand. John 16:7 "It is for your benefit that I am going away." John 14:17 "The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you".

I hope I came up to your challenge and answered all your questions.


Last edited by on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 10:55 pm

He made the earth by His power; You go Daniel LUV IT, LUV IT, LUV IT. Anastasia
He founded the world by His wisdom
and stretched out the heavens by
His understanding (Jeremiah 51:15)

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  gil on Sun 30 Dec 2007, 7:54 pm

Nice dad, she will never give a challenge to you again.

Love ya

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  lovingdove on Sun 30 Dec 2007, 8:57 pm

Excellent reply and yes I also learnt about Trinity and you have explained it wonderfully. I agree Gil that she will not challenge us again or she will not make a challenge for a while.

In Christ

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Re: Trinity - Fact or Falsehood?

Post  saved on Mon 31 Dec 2007, 2:20 pm

Thank you Daniel for excellently explaining the Trinity. I have always been left speechless regarding this concept and now I can tell the plan of satan before crucifixion and after crucifixion. Thank you Anastasia for all the verse you quoted in response to the question of Trinity.

Daniel I checked the religions before crucuifixion and you are right that satan tried to distort the meaning of Trinity, crucifixion and Heavenly Father. After crucifixion, yes you are right, we have religions and cults that reject crucifixion and resurrection.

God bles you all

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