2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

View previous topic View next topic Go down

2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  brother in christ on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 10:59 pm

According to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 we are told that IF the believers fall away from the PURE faith, the Son of Perdition will be revealed. This means that there is no such thing as the Rapture of Christ taking His Church out of the world before the Tribulation Judgment, as many teach. Because we are called to be Salt & Light in the World, we are given the stewardship of spreading the Truth of the Gospel in the manner in which it was given, and that as Anointed by the Holy Spirit. This action is suppose to aid the preservation of the Earth. If we deivate from this mandate, if we instead go about doing our own will, we set in motion the breach that will overthrown the ministry of reconciliation and intercession for Humanity. Whatsoever we allow on Earth the Lord will allow in Heaven, as revealed in Matthew 18:18. When we allow salaries to be paid for ministry contrary to scripture, church-houses and church-house systems to be established for worshipping God contrary to scripture, establishment of denominations of sects contrary to scripture, and so much more, we fall away from the pure faith, opening the door for the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet. We will not be delivered from this time if we allow it, but instead will endure it as all others will. This and more I have been sent to inform you and all members of the Body. Time is of the essence. The time-frame of the rising of the Anti-Christ is by the Summer of 2009, if the Body does not unite in pure mature faith and sound doctrine. Our Lord desires to gather a church that is without spot wrinkle and blemish. We do not have to be concerned about how to stop this from happening. We simply need to examine ourselves to make sure our faith is pure from all things carnal and religious and self-righteous. We must make sure that we repent of all sin allowed in the name of God. We must become Perfect as our Lord instructs according to Matthew 5:48. I would like to discuss this matter further with you in reasonable fashion. I am a servant of the Lord, and a fellow bondservant to and with you. Let us reason together on these matters of importance. I am sent as an apostle to exhort and admonish all mankind, especially the lost Sheep of the house of God. Judgment begins with the house of God. Consult the Lord by the Holy Spirit about me, and let us go on to the matter at hand. I await your response.

brother in christ
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 14
Age : 55
Location : usa
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Points : 16340
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 4:48 am

Pretribulation
Saints Catching Away

Dear Thomas-- Eagle, you are dead wrong on your new age theory, that is what the Devil wants you to believe. But the Bible tells us that we are not appointed to wrath, but that we should pray to be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are coming upon the earth. Even the apostles thought that the coming of the Lord would be in their days. Also there will be a end time gathering when the Angel meaning; the Angel of the Lord Jesus, will thrust his sickle to harvest the people that did not get the mark
of the beast.Rev.7:13-14(( And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou know. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in
the blood of the Lamb. In Rev.4 John was taking up just like we would. After this the Church is not mention again only the Jews. So, where is the Church; in heaven. Now the church age is gone and God will deal with the 144000, oo Jewsthey will be seal by the Angel, and these my dear will be taken up too, before
God. Rev.6 10. They called loudly to the Lord and said, ``O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge the people of the earth for what they've done to us? When will you avenge our blood against those living on the earth?'' this means they are in heaven already while the sinners are still on the earth.-- White robes were given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little longer until their other brothers, fellow servants of Jesus, had been martyred on the earth and joined them.
These
are the ones that did not go in the first gathering.
After every believer is gone, it tells us of the wrath to come upon the earth.
Thomas-Eagle, this is part of your letter.

Here is one directly saying what will be at the end times, and the order of which they are. M't:13:49: So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just; this is already in heaven at the judgment. M't:13:50: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Thus dealing with the wicked first. Yes he will separate the wheat from the tears at judgment day M't:13:30: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. This one there is no question as to which goes first in the time of Harvest.

So what we have discovered now is that the Pretribulation Rapture is not a Gathering of Righteous at all, but a veil to fool those who cannot see and understand that there will be a gathering of the wicked, as stated by Scripture of God, not I. If it is as you say, than why would God be punishing the earth at all?
It makes no sense that God will burn the earth with the righteous in it. Did God do that to Sodom or Gomorrah did God do that to Noah be real, who has beguile you.
Matt.13:47. ``Again, the Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by a fisherman--he casts a net into the water and gathers in fish of every kind,
valuable and worthless. When the net is full, he drags it up onto the beach and sits down and sorts out the edible ones into crates and throws the others away.
Gathers the good ones first throws the bad ones second That is the way it will be at the end of the world--the angels will come and separate the
wicked people from the godly, this pertains to the very end when he is ready to throw them into the fire. God is not two ways there is only one interpretation of scripture. Just like not once save always save. --casting the wicked into the fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Eagle-This truth of this Fallacy should be shown to as many souls, churches, and organizations as possible, although there is much money power and greed invested in these things and not so easily convinced. I do not make a cent off this ministry. I have E-mail Eagle.

This is Anastasia speaking now. To all out there who is confused donít be, just read the word of God and take it to be only one way. It is not the way he says it is! It is the way God says. Words of wisdom! Why would God tell us to pray that we may escape all the horrors that are coming upon the earth? And why would he tell us that he did not appoint us, to wrath. People donít understand that the Christians will come back to rule the earth. So where are the people we are to rule, if God killed
everybody? And if He took the bad first, and left the saved ones on earth, why is He punishing us believers it makes no sense. So is Godís kingdom divided against itself I donít think so. Let the word speak for itself.


Rev.14:12-20 {Let this encourage God's people to endure patiently every trial and persecution, for they are his saints who remain firm to the end in obedience to his commands and trust in Jesus.'' And I heard a voice in the heavens above me saying, ``Write this down: At last the time has come for his martyrs to enter into their full reward. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blest indeed, for now they shall rest from all their toils and trials; for their good deeds follow them to heaven!'' Then the scene changed and I saw a white cloud, and someone sitting on it who looked like Jesus, who was called ``The Son of Man,'' with a crown of solid gold upon his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then an angel came from the temple and called out to him, ``Begin to use the sickle, for the time has come for you to reap; the harvest is ripe on the earth.'' So the one sitting on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the harvest was gathered in. After that another angel came from the temple in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. Just then the angel who has power to destroy the world with fire, shouted to the angel with the sickle, ``Use your sickle now to cut off the clusters of grapes from the vines of the earth, for they are fully ripe for judgment.'' So the angel swung his sickle on the earth and loaded the grapes into the great winepress of God's wrath. And the grapes were trodden in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out in a stream 200 miles long and as high as a horse's bridle.

A love for Yeshua, and His word.

This is a letter I have written to someone who believes as you do, but even so we are always to remain faithfull watching looking and expecting Him to come. The Lord bless you. And may he reveal His truth to us.

Anastasia Martone


Last edited by on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

I agree with you Brother in Christ - Lee

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 5:08 am

Whether you are a pre trib-a mid trib-or a post trib is of little importance, just as long as we believe in and trust and obey Jesus our master and Lord. I have read your letter and you are absolutely correct, I agree with everything you said. I personally believe that Jesus will not take us out to be with Him until the Antichrist stands in the temple and declares himself to be God. This is where we may disagree. You believe that the falling away means that the saints will fall away from the true faith, this is a very widely practiced belief.
I believe that the falling away means that the Jews that were previously following the Antichrist will fall away from following him because he commands that they worship his image that he has set up in the temple, which is strictly against the law of Moses. At this point the Antichrist will start to slaughter them by the thousands. At this point in the Tribulation, all Hell brakes loose. God bless you in Jesus Name. Lee

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 3:49 pm

Sorry I wanted to use the quote reply, but it does not work.
I like to add this to my letter, if you are worry about who will be left to
deliver the Gospel the answer to this is simple, it will be 144,000 Jews who
should of given the gentiles the gospel in the first place. But I am grateful
it happens this way, their rejection, means to us salvation. Also the Bible
teaches that the Angels will also deliver the Gospel once 144,000 have been reaped
from the earth. I get so excited talking about this subject, I get carry away. Thank
you for your concern. Lee agrees with you but I do not on this subject, because
Noah was deliver before the storm hit. Also Lot and his family were deliver-- after
that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Anastasia

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Let's examine the details....

Post  brother in christ on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 1:45 am

anastasia@yeshuastruth.co wrote:Pretribulation
Saints Catching Away


Dear Thomas-- Eagle, you are dead wrong on your new age
theory, that is what the Devil wants you to believe. But the Bible tells us
that we are not appointed to wrath, but that we should pray to be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that are coming upon the earth. Even the
apostles thought that the coming of the Lord would be in their days. Also there
will be a end time gathering when the Angel meaning; the Angel of the Lord
Jesus, will thrust his sickle to harvest the people that did not get the mark
of the beast.Rev.7:13-14(( And one of the elders answered, saying unto
me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And
I said unto him, Sir, thou know. And he said to me, these are they which came
out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in
the blood of the Lamb. In Rev.4 John was taking up just like we would. After
this the Church is not mention again only the Jews. So, where is the Church; in
heaven. Now the church age is gone and God will deal with the 144000, oo Jews
they will be seal by the Angel, and these my dear will be taken up too, before
God. Rev.6 10. They called loudly to the Lord and said, ``O Sovereign
Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge the people of the
earth for what they've done to us? When will you avenge our blood against those
living on the earth?'' this means they are in heaven already while the
sinners are still on the earth.
-- White robes were given to each of
them, and they were told to rest a little longer until their other brothers,
fellow servants of Jesus, had been martyred on the earth and joined them.
These
are the ones that did not go in the first gathering.
After
every believer is gone, it tells us of the wrath to come upon the earth.
Thomas-Eagle, this is part of your letter.

Here is one directly saying what will be at the end times, and the order of
which they are. M't:13:49: So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels
shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just; this is
already in heaven at the judgment.

M't:13:50: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing
and gnashing of teeth. Thus dealing with the wicked first. Yes he
will separate the wheat from the tears at judgment day

M't:13:30: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest
I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in
bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. This one there is no
question as to which goes first in the time of Harvest. So what we have
discovered now is that the Pretribulation Rapture is not a Gathering of
Righteous at all, but a veil to fool those who cannot see and understand that
there will be a gathering of the wicked, as stated by Scripture of God, not
I. If it is as you say, than why would God be punishing the earth at all?
It makes no sense that God will burn the earth with the righteous in it.
Did God do that to Sodom or Gomorrah did God do that to Noah be real, who
has beguile you.
Matt.13:47. ``Again, the Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by a
fisherman--he casts a net into the water and gathers in fish of every kind,
valuable and worthless. When the net is full, he drags it up onto the beach and
sits down and sorts out the edible ones into crates and throws the others away.

Gathers the good ones first throws the bad ones second
That is the way
it will be at the end of the world--the angels will come and separate the
wicked people from the godly, this pertains to the very end when he is
ready to throw them into the fire. God is not two ways there is only one
interpretation of scripture. Just like not once save always save. --
casting
the wicked into the fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Eagle-This truth of this Fallacy should be shown to as many souls, churches,
and organizations as possible, although there is much money power and greed
invested in these things and not so easily convinced. I do not make a
cent off this ministry. I have E-mail Eagle. This is Anastasia speaking
now. To all out there who is confused donít be, just read the word of God and
take it to be only one way. It is not the way he says it is! It is the way God
says. Words of wisdom! Why would God tell us to pray that we may escape all the
horrors that are coming upon the earth? And why would he tell us that he did
not appoint us, to wrath. People donít understand that the Christians will come
back to rule the earth. So where are the people we are to rule, if God killed
everybody? And if He took the bad first, and left the saved ones on earth, why
is He punishing us believers it makes no sense. So is Godís kingdom divided
against itself I donít think so. Let the word speak for itself.
Rev.14:12-20 {Let this encourage God's people to endure patiently every
trial and persecution, for they are his saints who remain firm to the end in
obedience to his commands and trust in Jesus.'' And I heard a voice in
the heavens above me saying, ``Write this down: At last the time has come for
his martyrs to enter into their full reward. Yes, says the Spirit, they are
blest indeed, for now they shall rest from all their toils and trials; for
their good deeds follow them to heaven!'' Then the scene changed and I saw a
white cloud, and someone sitting on it who looked like Jesus, who was called
``The Son of Man,'' with a crown of solid gold upon his head and a sharp sickle
in his hand. Then an angel came from the temple and called out to him, ``Begin
to use the sickle, for the time has come for you to reap; the harvest is ripe
on the earth.'' So the one sitting on the cloud swung his sickle over the
earth, and the harvest was gathered in. After that another angel came
from the temple in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. Just then the angel
who has power to destroy the world with fire, shouted to the angel with the
sickle, ``Use your sickle now to cut off the clusters of grapes from the
vines of the earth, for they are fully ripe for judgment.'' So the angel
swung his sickle on the earth and loaded the grapes into the great winepress of
God's wrath. And the grapes were trodden in the winepress outside the city, and
blood flowed out in a stream 200 miles long and as high as a horse's bridle.
A
love for Yeshua, and His word.

This is a letter I have written to someone who believes as you do, but even so we are always to remain faithfull watching looking and expecting Him to come. The Lord bless you. And may he reveal His truth to us.





Anastasia Martone

First, I hope you do not confuse me with someone else. Secondly, I agree that a separation must take place, for Christ comes to gather a church that is without spot wrinkle and blemish. But, I notice in all your comments of contention, you did not deal with the scripture 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. Tell me; what does this mean to you? My original message uses this scripture.

brother in Christ

brother in christ
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 14
Age : 55
Location : usa
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Points : 16340
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  jari on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 7:48 pm

Dear Brother

I do not know whether I have been able to understand the article but if I understood it properly, as you say, if there is no lawlessness in the Church, then the Anit-Christ will not come? Please do explain it in detail as I got interested in this discussion. It is quite interesting and thought provoking article you have written and God bless you for that.

jari
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 12
Age : 28
Location : South Africa
Registration date : 2007-07-16
Points : 17170
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Thanks Lee, my response.

Post  brother in christ on Fri 04 Jan 2008, 3:21 am

Guest wrote:Whether you are a pre trib-a mid trib-or a post trib is of little importance, just as long as we believe in and trust and obey Jesus our master and Lord. I have read your letter and you are absolutely correct, I agree with everything you said. I personally believe that Jesus will not take us out to be with Him until the Antichrist stands in the temple and declares himself to be God. This is where we may disagree. You believe that the falling away means that the saints will fall away from the true faith, this is a very widely practiced belief.
I believe that the falling away means that the Jews that were previously following the Antichrist will fall away from following him because he commands that they worship his image that he has set up in the temple, which is strictly against the law of Moses. At this point the Antichrist will start to slaughter them by the thousands. At this point in the Tribulation, all Hell brakes loose. God bless you in Jesus Name. Lee


First, thanks Lee for responding and not assuming me a devil or agent against Christ and his people.

Secondly, let examine your concerns:

TRIBULATION:
The tribulation is a judgment meant not only for Jews, but for Gentiles as well, because we ALL have sinned against God. Yes, disciples of Christ have immunity from God's wrath -John 3:33-36. But, if the Body is not holy, because of allowing things that overtake us, these things will also be allowed by heaven to overtake the world --Matthew 18:18. The judgment of Noah's time came when the world did not expect. This is why Matthew 24:36-44 is stated. The world did not know when or the sign of the wrath to come in a spiritual sense, but the Believers did know. They speak to God. The world is not excused completely, but neither are we.

What is the believers posture to be, to simply wait for their own departure? No. They are to occupy with ministry, watching, praying, reaching out to the very end, because God has not appointed believers to wrath, and anyone has potential to become a believer - JOHN 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9. Believers are created byspiritual works of right, NOT mere words --1 Corinthians 1, 2.

This means that the Church is specifically responsible for a allowing the Tribulation Judgment to occur, when in fact the gospel was given to prevent it, because we are to be INTERCESSORS, just as Jesus interceded for our salvation. The gospel is not to be sold or hindered or perverted or anything other than what it was given to for, to perform the measure of affect it was given to.

Can you say that the Body is pure now? Can you say that the Body is ready as the spotless church for the Lord to gather? No. We've allowed sin in our camp and it has affected the world. Do you think that God will hold us harmless for that? As we do to the least of our brethren, we do to Him.

Your speculation about the Jews falling away from the Anti-Christ, I admire, but....This is not true. 1. It is assumed that only Jews will be left on the Earth during the Tribulation period. This is false. Would God rapture only some, and leave only Jews? Would the AntiChrist only turn on the Jews for not worshipping his image? Is 2 Thessalonians 2:3 stating that Christ will not return unless the Jews fall away from the antichrist, that has not previouasly been revealed? Verse 7 states that He (Christ) must be taken out of the way for the Lawless one to be revealed. The Body of Christ is to be an intercessor for Israel, not simply leave. We can in fact prevent the culmination of what Revelations plays out as a scenerio IF we do not fall away. Just as Abram interceded for Lot in Sodom - Genesis 18, we disciples of Christ must intercede for Israel and the world. We should not allow the Adversary to raise up a dictator at our expense. This APOSTASY or in other words Falling Away is those claiming Christ, not Jews. 2 Thessalonians coincides with 1 Timothy 4:1-5 and also is cross-referenced with Hebrews 5:11-13 & 6:1-6 concerning spiritual immaturity, This is not the Jews brother, but good try.

brother in christ
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 14
Age : 55
Location : usa
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Points : 16340
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Thanks Anastasia

Post  brother in christ on Fri 04 Jan 2008, 3:30 am

Guest wrote:Sorry I wanted to use the quote reply, but it does not work.
I like to add this to my letter, if you are worry about who will be left to
deliver the Gospel the answer to this is simple, it will be 144,000 Jews who
should of given the gentiles the gospel in the first place. But I am grateful
it happens this way, their rejection, means to us salvation. Also the Bible
teaches that the Angels will also deliver the Gospel once 144,000 have been reaped
from the earth. I get so excited talking about this subject, I get carry away. Thank
you for your concern. Lee agrees with you but I do not on this subject, because
Noah was deliver before the storm hit. Also Lot and his family were deliver-- after
that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Anastasia

Thanks Anastasia, I love your zeal and you as my sister. Yes, Noah was delivered, but IF there had been more believers, the world would have been delivered, not just Noah and his family. They were not the only people claiming to believe God, but they were the ones, or at least Noah, that found favor with God. This is a sad commentary. The TRUTH is far more powerful and persuasive then that. The world was not created to be destroyed and the truth allowed to spread as it should is powerful enough through love to sustain TIME for salvation to have it's perfect work. But, the saved MUST ALLOW it to work. Now, how do I know that God would have spared the world - 1. because He told me so.
2. because He examples this in the event of Genesis 18, when Abram intercedes for Lot. God say's He will spare, IF there are enough believers.

brother in christ
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 14
Age : 55
Location : usa
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Points : 16340
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

So sorry for my delay in getting back to you.

Post  brother in christ on Fri 04 Jan 2008, 3:40 am

jari wrote:Dear Brother

I do not know whether I have been able to understand the article but if I understood it properly, as you say, if there is no lawlessness in the Church, then the Anit-Christ will not come? Please do explain it in detail as I got interested in this discussion. It is quite interesting and thought provoking article you have written and God bless you for that.

Forgive me for my neglect....thanks for responding.

Thanks Jari for your kind comments...yes you are correct. IF the Body does not fall away from the faith, then the Antichrist will be hindered or curtailed in his effort to dominate because light will not allow him his desire. Likewise, see that Christ, according to John 1:5 'darkness cannot comprehend the LIGHT,' nor can it stop it. Therefore, if God's people who are called by His name will hear from heaven and obey, He will restore the land and heal the nations. This is the objective; That we be pure & powerful in Him, so that He can be pure & powerful in the world through us.

Your thoughts.

brother in christ
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 14
Age : 55
Location : usa
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Points : 16340
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sun 06 Jan 2008, 5:43 pm

Dear Brother in Christ

According to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 we are told that IF the believers fall away from the PURE faith, the Son of Perdition will be revealed. This means that there is no such thing as the Rapture of Christ taking His Church out of the world before the Tribulation Judgment, as many teach.

I did not find any such claim that you have made in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8, so it is totally FALSE and leads to False Teaching and surely, you are misleading others.

Don't let anyone deceive you about this in any way. That day cannot come unless a revolt takes place first, and the man of sin, the man of destruction, is revealed. (2 Thess 2:3)

Paul clearly states that first the Anit-Christ will come and then Jesus Christ will come, how can you put this theory that if we do not slip away then the coming of Anti-Christ will hindered or curtailed? Again False Teaching

Don't you remember that I told you about these things, when I was still with you? You know what it is that now holds him back, so that he will be revealed when his time comes. The mystery of this sin is alrady at work. But it cannot work effectively until the person now holding it back gets out of the way. The man of sin will be revealed and the LORD Jesus will destroy him by what he says. When the Lord Jesus comes, his appearance will put an end to this man. (2 Thess 2:5-8)

Paul clearly states that Jesus Christ is holding him back for his (Anit-Christ) time has not come yet and Jesus Christ will surely get out of the way and Anit-Christ will be revealed at his appointed time. Now according to this verse, it is not in your hands or my hands to stop Jesus Christ. Anti-Christ will be sent at the appointed time as planned and designed by Heavenly Father.

Personally, I am more interested in why Paul spoke all these things. Paul gives three directives to the church at Thessalonia regarding work: First, he says, follow our example of work (3:6-9); Secondly, work for your own bread (10-12); and thirdly, mark men who won't work (13-16).

Paul wrote this letter from the city of Corinth in 52 A.D. There, together with Timothy and Silas, the apostle had heard that the Thessalonian Christians had been disturbed by false information that the "day of the Lord" had already arrived. Because they were being persecuted for their faith in Christ, they believed they were living in the period of the tribulation. Thus the apostle wrote a letter of encouragement, instruction and admonition to the family of believers in Thessalonia, setting them straight about the sequence of events of the end times.

In these closing verses of the letter, Paul focuses his attention on the subject of idleness among certain of the believers in Thessalonia. It appears they were taking advantage of the teaching about the return of Christ (or the fact that some of them believed that day had already come). They lay down their tools and refused to do any more work, leaving it up to the Christian community to meet their needs and care for them.

In his first letter to the Thessalonians, Paul had urged the leaders of the church to "admonish the unruly," the undisciplined who had bad work habits. It seems these elements had not changed their ways, however, as here in the closing words of his second letter the apostle once again addresses the problem, this time invoking the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. First, he tells the Thessalonians,

Follow Our Example of Work 3:6-9

Brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ we order you not to associate with any believer who doesn't live a discipled life and doesn't follow the tradition you eceived from us. You know what you must do to imitate us. We lived a disciplined life among you. We didn't eat anyone's food without paying for it. Instead, we worked hard and struggled night and day in order not to be a burden to any of you.(2 Thess 3:6)

Paul is speaking in the name of the Lord and invoking his own authority as an apostle as he addresses this matter of disobedience regarding work "Keep aloof' from such men. The word "Aloof" used here, means to tie up sails of a ship, when at rest.

Work for Your Own Bread

While we were with you, we gave you the order: "Whoever doesn't want to work be allowed to eat. We hear that some of you are not living disciplined lives. You're not working, so you go around interfering in other people's lives. We order and encourage such people by the Lord Jesus Christ to pay attention to their own work so they can support themselves." (2 Thess 3:10-12)

It is obvious that Paul is not referring to the lame, the blind, downcast. weak or sick within the church He is addressing those able--bodied who were taking advantage of the confusion of the second coming of Christ to have their needs met.

Mark Men Who Won't Work

Brothers and sisters, we can't allow ourselves to get tired of doing what is right. It may be that some people will not listen to what we say in this letter. Take note of them and don't associate with them so that they will feel ashamed. Yes, don't treat them like enemies, but instruct them like brother and sisters. (2 Thess 3:13-15)

Dear Brother in Christ, ceratinly, this is talk of Holy Spirit that we see from the mouth of Paul. Holy Spirit long before your birth and my birth told us through Peter that many will not be able to understand Paul's letters (2 Peter 3:16).

We are always discussing things of which we know nothing. Jesus Christ clearly stated:

Jesus told them, "You don't need to know about times or periods that the Father has determined by His own authority (ACTS 1:7)"

This makes your claim that "Anit-Christ will be revealed in Summer of 2009" is again False and misleading.

I would request everyone to follow what Jesus commanded us to do. Even apostles obeyed His command but we are so blind in promoting ourselves as holy and full of Holy Spirit that we not only disobey Jesus' command but go beyond what is written.

Brother in Christ, this is what makes your teaching of 2 Thessaloninas 2:3-8, false and contrary to what Paul spoke through Holy Spirit by the command of Jesus Christ.

God bless you

_________________


Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ. (Philemon 1:3)


Waqar Daniel
Administrator

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 2778
Age : 46
Location : The Kingdom of Heavenly Father
Profession : Consultant
Hobbies : Long drives, Gospel music, Bible study
Marital Status : Married
Registration date : 2007-06-25
Points : 19138
Reputation : 42
Country :

Warning :

View user profile http://christian-talk.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  jari on Mon 07 Jan 2008, 7:07 pm

I agree that Paul was talking to Thessalonians who assumed like many of us who live in this century that end of times have come. I agree that we should forget about predictions of times. If we are in Christ then we should not be afraid of end times. I also agree that we should not indulge into things we are not sure of.

God bless

jari
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 12
Age : 28
Location : South Africa
Registration date : 2007-07-16
Points : 17170
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 2 Thess. 2:2-8 Mature Church or AntiChrist - You Decide

Post  Sponsored content Today at 8:05 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum