Urim and Thummin

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Urim and Thummin

Post  Littlelamb on Fri 22 Aug 2008, 4:04 pm

What are Urim and Thummin? Our Pastor is teaching out of the Book of Ezra, and I pondered the meaning of Urim and Thummin? Here is the scripture reference:

Ezra 2:61 And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name: 62 These sought their register [among] those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. 63 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

It is repeated again in the Book of Nehemiah:

Nehemiah 7:63 And of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai, which took [one] of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite to wife, and was called after their name. 64 These sought their register [among] those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. 65 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood [up] a priest with Urim and Thummim.

As you can see from the scripture reference, that this family was not found among the genealogy of the Children of Israel, and they were removed, and could not particiapte in the most HOLY duties of the priesthood.

A few other scriptures mentions the Urim and Thummin.

Exodus 28:29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually. 30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

Leviticus 8:4 And Moses did as the LORD commanded him; and the assembly was gathered together unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 5 And Moses said unto the congregation, This [is] the thing which the LORD commanded to be done. 6 ¶ And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. 7 And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound [it] unto him therewith. 8 And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim. 9 And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, [even] upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the LORD commanded Moses. 10 ¶ And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that [was] therein, and sanctified them.

Deuteronomy 33:8 ¶ And of Levi he said, [Let] thy Thummim and thy Urim [be] with thy holy one, whom thou didst prove at Massah, [and with] whom thou didst strive at the waters of Meribah; 9 Who said unto his father and to his mother, I have not seen him; neither did he acknowledge his brethren, nor knew his own children: for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant. 10 They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: they shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifice upon thine altar. 11 Bless, LORD, his substance, and accept the work of his hands: smite through the loins of them that rise against him, and of them that hate him, that they rise not again.

We can see that the Urim and Thummin are used in the Priestly duties of the Children of Levi. It was used to show the WILL of GOD. Here is Strong's Lexiconfor both words:

Urim = "lights"

1) stones kept in a pouch on the high-priest's breastplate, used in determining God's decision in certain questions and issues.

Thummim = "perfection"

1) stones provided for the means of achieving a sacred lot

a) used with the Urim, the will of God was revealed

Another word, that needs translation is Tirshatha. Here is Strong's Lexicon of this word:

1) Tirshatha - governor

a) a title used by the Persian governor in Judea

1) Nehemiah used this title

The Urim and Thummin are stones or a lot, that was used by the Priest,to reveal the WILL of GOD. They could only be used together, and not seperately. One example is given in the Book One of Samuel:

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Why do you think it was important to remove this family from the Priesthood, until a Priest with Urim and Thummin, could be found to give an answer?

How does this teaching warn us about false pastor's and false teacher's today?

Littlelamb
Christian Talk Moderators

Mood : I feel Blessed
Female

Number of posts : 227
Age : 54
Location : USA
Profession : Admin of 2 forums, Children's Church Ministry
Hobbies : The BIBLE and the STUDY which I apply to life.
Marital Status : Married
Registration date : 2008-03-21
Points : 16050
Reputation : 4
Country :

Warning :

View user profile http://www.lordismyshepherd.forumsmotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Urim and Thummin

Post  I Love Jesus on Sat 23 Aug 2008, 5:36 pm

Nice study your Pastor has started and I would say that as believers we must take out false preachers and teachers. They mislead others just for their motives. Motive can be any but mostly these false preachers are satan worshipers and nothing more and make others to do so. They have no right to preach and teach to us and God has not given them permission to do so either.

I Love Jesus

I Love Jesus
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Female

Number of posts : 19
Age : 36
Location : UK
Registration date : 2008-08-13
Points : 15190
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Urim and Thummin

Post  Littlelamb on Sat 14 Feb 2009, 4:09 pm

I Love Jesus wrote:Nice study your Pastor has started and I would say that as believers we must take out false preachers and teachers. They mislead others just for their motives. Motive can be any but mostly these false preachers are satan worshipers and nothing more and make others to do so. They have no right to preach and teach to us and God has not given them permission to do so either.

I Love Jesus
This is true, but not so much that we should take them out, but pray them in. Le me explain, why I feel this way. I used to think, just as you have said above, but the LORD has QUICKENED my spirit to HIS TRUTH within the WORD. The WORD says, that there will always be tares among the wheat. It is by the LORD, that we can discern what is false and what is HIS TRUTH. I believe a gentle guiding of the Holy Spirit, will lead many of these tares, to HIS TRUTH. The LORD did this with Saul. HE can change hearts and open eyes and ears. Not all are called to be pastors, or teachers. GOD has many GIFTS that is given to HIS Children. Some have the gift of discernment, some the gift of intercessory prayer, some the gift of being able to SPEAK HIS WORD. Some the gift of healing, etc. My prayer is that the LORD will help us develop the specific gifts, that HE has bestowed upon each one of us.

Littlelamb
Christian Talk Moderators

Mood : I feel Blessed
Female

Number of posts : 227
Age : 54
Location : USA
Profession : Admin of 2 forums, Children's Church Ministry
Hobbies : The BIBLE and the STUDY which I apply to life.
Marital Status : Married
Registration date : 2008-03-21
Points : 16050
Reputation : 4
Country :

Warning :

View user profile http://www.lordismyshepherd.forumsmotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Urim and Thummin

Post  ericv on Sat 14 Feb 2009, 6:34 pm

Wow, what an exciting study that could be!

I've heard mention that the thummin and urim were also referred to as the "stones of fire". Some say they fit in a poach within the breast plate, behind the 12 stones representing the twelve tribes of Israel. When the High Priest entered into the Holiest Place the stones would shine, lighting up the twelve stones of Israel showing God had forgiven all of Israel.

"let everything be established by two or three witnesses"

Notice it never syays two or "more", but always two or three. There is a pattern God uses throughout scripture. A pattern that gives a balance of insight for those who can see and discern between the two.

Some examples:
The two cheubims upon the mercy seat, Exodus 25:22
And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

1 Corinthians 11:28-30 (King James Version)
28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The bread and the wine represents the Lord's body. The bible is also made up of the letter and the Spirit, but it's discerning from between the two that we hear what the Spirit is saying. Jesus spoke always to the people in parables and only those who have the spirit can receive the truth.

Matthew 13:9-11 (King James Version)
9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jesus, our high priest, when on the mount of transformation was visited by two witnesses, Moses and Elijah. And what happened?
Matthew 17
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

The law and grace are like two witnesses.
The O.T. and the N.T.

Having one without the other would be "un-balanced".

It takes two witnesses for one to see the truth, and only if that one can discern from between the two.

Remember the children in the wilderness, they followed a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night....two witnesses.

Science itself has found that balance is in the hearing. As a childs hearing developes so does his sense of balance. Just some food for thought.

ericv
Christian Talk Member

Mood : I feel Blessed
Male

Number of posts : 11
Age : 52
Location : thunderbay ontario
Marital Status : Still Looking
Registration date : 2009-02-09
Points : 14285
Reputation : 0
Country :

Warning :

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Urim and Thummin

Post  Littlelamb on Sun 15 Feb 2009, 2:16 am

ericv wrote:Wow, what an exciting study that could be!

I've heard mention that the thummin and urim were also referred to as the "stones of fire". Some say they fit in a poach within the breast plate, behind the 12 stones representing the twelve tribes of Israel. When the High Priest entered into the Holiest Place the stones would shine, lighting up the twelve stones of Israel showing God had forgiven all of Israel.

"let everything be established by two or three witnesses"

Notice it never syays two or "more", but always two or three. There is a pattern God uses throughout scripture. A pattern that gives a balance of insight for those who can see and discern between the two.

Some examples:
The two cheubims upon the mercy seat, Exodus 25:22
And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

1 Corinthians 11:28-30 (King James Version)
28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The bread and the wine represents the Lord's body. The bible is also made up of the letter and the Spirit, but it's discerning from between the two that we hear what the Spirit is saying. Jesus spoke always to the people in parables and only those who have the spirit can receive the truth.

Matthew 13:9-11 (King James Version)
9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jesus, our high priest, when on the mount of transformation was visited by two witnesses, Moses and Elijah. And what happened?
Matthew 17
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

The law and grace are like two witnesses.
The O.T. and the N.T.

Having one without the other would be "un-balanced".

It takes two witnesses for one to see the truth, and only if that one can discern from between the two.

Remember the children in the wilderness, they followed a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night....two witnesses.

Science itself has found that balance is in the hearing. As a childs hearing developes so does his sense of balance. Just some food for thought.
A HEARTY AMEN! cheers I just love how the WORD comes ALIVE in us. sunny

Littlelamb
Christian Talk Moderators

Mood : I feel Blessed
Female

Number of posts : 227
Age : 54
Location : USA
Profession : Admin of 2 forums, Children's Church Ministry
Hobbies : The BIBLE and the STUDY which I apply to life.
Marital Status : Married
Registration date : 2008-03-21
Points : 16050
Reputation : 4
Country :

Warning :

View user profile http://www.lordismyshepherd.forumsmotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Urim and Thummin

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:10 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum