An Announcement

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An Announcement

Post  Common on Wed 01 Oct 2008, 10:19 pm

You know, I wonder. This is supposed to be a Christian inspirational encouragement forum. Yes, there is to be Bible discussions, but I think that people are getting out of hand with themselves. We are to discuss Bible things but we don't need to LABEL others. We don't need to say that their responses are PATHETIC or that they are a FALSE TEACHER. I find that very rude. I am only a 14 year old girl and I'm not even going around labeling people and acting this way! As one person put which I will not name:

"Hallelujah! False teachers always fall to pieces before the God and so it will be in hell forever and ever."

--And referring that to me. This is not good brothers and sisters. We can discuss without labeling and being rude. If I had a forum I would not let this happen AT ALL. I would not let any of my members, whether they agree with me on a certain point or not, go around labeling others. It would not be permitted. You can say, "I disagree with you brother," or, "sister, I believe so and so," -but not, your reply is pathetic and you are a false teacher and many other things that I have picked up. God made us as intelligent beings and we are to act that way. Look at it. What would Jesus do? Come on. Seriously? We need to start acting in unity and in Christian fellowship. Bible discussions ought not to be carried out this way. I wish for peace, I give a blessing, and I pray for change.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Waqar Daniel on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 6:18 am

Common this is strange, being 14 years is no excuse. Let me remind you of your words.

Common wrote:Hi all. This post was inspired by Sophie's which said that there was no hell. I think we all need to take this very calmly. Now there is indeed a lot of misunderstanding on the subject. But what I will shortly present is what the Bible teaches.

1. Hell DOES exist.

2. Hell DOES NOT burn forever.

These subjects, and mostly the second one is VERY controversial. There is a hell that will DESTROY the wicked by fire. There will be fire and such on. But the only thing ETERNAL about hell is its effects. To believe in the eternity of the wicked in hell, one must believe
that man's soul is immortal, and that is not the case. That leads into a whole different subject. I thought that I'd share these thoughts to help clear up the misunderstanding.

Who gave you permission to alter the Word of God and who gave you permission to call Biblical verses controversial? Here you are disrespectful to Jesus, prophets and apostles who preached and warned people that sin has consequences and if unrepentant these consequences would lead to hell for everlasting tormenting. You call the preaching of Bible controversial and yet you say that you are 14 years old and you need to be encouraged. Encouraged for what? What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. (1 Cor 11:22)

Common wrote:OK I see that there is misunderstanding. Lets settle it once and for all.

We all quoted Bible and you misquoted the Bible, basing your thoughts on a website.

Common wrote:Daniel, just read my post. I already clarified that. To say that Malachi 4:1-3 is a "phrase" and "not real," then I guess Revelation 20:10 is a "phrase" and "not real" too.

Just to prove your point again you tried to misquote the Bible. You went on further to be disrespectful.

Common wrote:Daniel, we ARE dust. God made us out of the dust of the earth. What is so shameful about that.

Now back then it was their custom to show distress and grief by putting up ashes and dust but that does not mean that it is now a universal symbol of distress and grief. It just was for them.

You added words to my post and asked What is so shameful about it? You don't even know the customs and traditions of this part of the world and I do wonder whether you have read Bible or not.

See dear common, let me tell you a simple fact, many people who talk about Bible are wolves. I never tolerate them. Many evil-doers try to cover up their sins with this deception that there is no hell or hell is not everlasting. Therefore people do not repent and keep on living in their sinful lives. When Jesus never said this, why should we believe in it. They provide verses of the Bible totally out of context and many are misled. People in non-Christian countries come up with theories like you preach and then they say "See Bible has changed", so it is false. I am sorry to tell you this, even a muslim would not agree with you on this preaching of yours although they do not believe in Bible, yet that muslim would tell you that you are wrong and may even show you the verses from the Bible. So who is better? You be the judge.

Common wrote:God made us as intelligent beings and we are to act that way. Look at it. What would Jesus do? Come on. Seriously?

First of all, to me, this is a sin if we say, What would Jesus do? Is Jesus dependant on our thoughts? Jesus has preached and explained everything and Bible has answers to every question put up for our faith. However, we want Jesus to talk our way and we want Him to change the way we want to see Him. We do not want to listen to what Jesus preached and taught. I ask, can you predict God's thoughts? Sorry dear, Bible never preaches this. As I already quoted, Do not go beyond what is written. (1 Cor 4:6)

You objected when I wrote that your post is pathetic and misleading and you asked what would Jesus say about me calling your post pathetic and misleading. Therefore, this is Jesus said, "And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?" (Mathew 16:3)

In the end, I would like to say this, you called Biblical verses controversial. However, Bible is not pieces of paper with ink on them and with some stories written over them, they are words of God the Most High and Promises and covenant of God with us.

To you, it may be ok to be disrespectful to God and what He said but to me this is simple blasphemy. According to you, we all are disrespectful and immature as we pointed out to you that you are teaching falsehood and to you this is a big sin. Isn't it strange? Why should we encourage you on false preaching - give me one good reason.

Thank you for your suggestion that if you had a forum, you would not let this happen. I also do not allow anyone to be rude or pass remarks, but as it is in the Forum Rules, I do not allow "False Preaching" because I follow Bible and in case if you have not read it, here is the verse If any one cometh to you, and bringeth not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither wish him happiness: (2 John 1:10)

As you pointed out that you are only 14 years old, so dear you have to learn and if you want to learn and understand the Word of God, ask God in prayers to send Holy Spirit on you so that you may understand the Bible, use it in your life and help others to understand the Bible. Websites, are no sources for understanding the Bible and Common, I always bless you in the end, I hope that you read that too. See you are not banned from this forum and you are still child of this forum and we all love you as child of God. We all develop ideas as we grow but the right way to develop is to ask God and seek His help only. This has been my routine since my teenage that when I was asked any question regarding my faith or if I read something against Christianity or if I was confused about something, I asked God in prayers and He did help me to understand it because it is His promise to all of us, Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things that you do not know (Jeremiah 33:3)

God bless you and your family

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Pastor on Thu 02 Oct 2008, 9:06 am

Common wrote:"Hallelujah! False teachers always fall to pieces before the God and so it will be in hell forever and ever." --And referring that to me. This is not good brothers and sisters.

Sorry Common, I did not refer this to you. It is my fault, I must have explained it in a better way, I said Hallelujah to (2 Peter 2:1-7) and (Daniel 12:2). I hope that misunderstanding is solved if not then you can forgive me if I hurt you.

Blessings of our Savior may be with you always now and forever.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Common on Fri 03 Oct 2008, 2:04 am



Let me settle this. I am not using my age for any excuse. The only thing I said referring to my age is the that I am a:

"14 year old and girl and don't even act that way!"

-Thats the only thing I said referring to my age.
I have already quoted plenty of scripture Daniel. Second, I did not say that Biblical verses are controversial. I said that those SUBJECTS are controversial. And as a matter of fact, those biblical verses concerning hell ARE controversial. Everyone has misinterpretations of them and all that, YES, IT IS controversial. And I am NOT ashamed to say that.

I am seeing that you are seriously misinterpreting my words. I did not say that I needed to be encouraged. Once again, READ the post Daniel. I said,

"Isn't this supposed to be an encouragement forum."

As a matter of fact Daniel. WE ALL QUOTED THE BIBLE. The problem is how we interpret those verses. My thoughts were not based on a website. I had already settled the subject and when I found that website it brought the subject out clearly so I put it out for reference if you guys would need help.

How am I being disrespectful by saying that we are dust? Tell me, please. Genesis points us that God made us out of the dust of the earth. So what? We're made out of dust.

Look Daniel, I never said the Bible has changed. That is putting words in my mouth. Further, let me put what you said,

"Many evil-doers try to cover up their sins with this deception that hell is not real or hell is not everlasting."

I said it before, and I will say it again. Hell is not everlasting. And I get the hint. You are trying to refer me as an evil-doer trying to cover up my sins. But I do not worry. Call me everything you want. You say that you do not allow people to pass rude remarks but you are doing it yourself. Come on.

You are labeling it as a sin when I say, "What would Jesus do." As a matter of fact, that is a good practice for when we are in trying situations. We can remember, what would our Saviour do if he were in my place? A sin! Ha!

You said, "According to you, we are all disrespectful and immature..."

Once again, you are misquoting me. I did not say that you all were disrespectful and immature. I said that calling me names was disrespectful.

The problem here, is that you have the problem of discerning WHAT is false teaching. And the doctrine of the bible on hell, that it is NOT everlasting, is a TRUE doctrine. Do you not understand? Crystal clear.
You say that you do not allow false preaching but you do not see that your own teaching is contradicting the Bible. Look at what I showed you. I cleared up the misunderstanding. It was all clarified. You still resisted it. So what can I do? You are ready to down any and everyone that disagrees with you.
This is not my forum, yes, but if I had a forum if someone wants to believe something amidst what I show them from the bible, SO BE IT. I will not FORCE them to believe what I believe. I will not BAN them for not believing what I believe. I will just show them the truth, and then let them make their decisions. If they still reject, then that is that for them. We will MOVE ON.
But you, you just start the name-calling and the labeling et cetera and it is just so ridiculous. SO ridiculous. A lot of you have surprised me with your attitudes but just because you do so does not mean I will be discouraged, I will keep preaching the TRUTH. I see that this website is about, "BELIEVE WHAT I DO OR BE BANNED." ---For you will not tolerate false teaching, remember?

I do not wish strife between ANY of us! Why should we let this happen?! We should not. And it need not be. This is an CHRISTIAN TALK FORUM, and let it live up to its name. Let us not let this disagreement tear us up and do not let it eat you out inside. I am not attacking YOU. Let us be calm. Let us be Christlike, let us be full of love. I wish peace towards you and us all.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  thirsty on Fri 03 Oct 2008, 3:30 pm

I believe that Daniel is quite patient and many have come on this site preaching the same what you are preaching. No one got banned and this quite a proof. I agree that what you are preaching is falsehood and has no Biblical basis. I would let Daniel answer your post. Please do note that we don't have any strife with any one, we discuss and debate and yet remain friends.

In our Savior

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Re: An Announcement

Post  warrior4christ on Fri 03 Oct 2008, 4:09 pm

I have been reading the whole thread with interest. Common I am sorry to tell you that your preaching is false and contradictory to the Bible. I am writing few verses from the Bible, please explain them as you claim to be so intelligent;

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Mathew 25:46)

If your claim is that those who do not enter the Kingdom of God, will turn into ashes, then what is everlasting punishment? Please answer.

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never hath forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 2:29)

What is eternal damnation if they convert into ashes??? Please explain.

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thes 1:9)

Where are the ashes??? Please explain.

Can you explain all these verses, you may take help from the website you have quoted. I hope that you will explain these verses. And you will also explain;

Common wrote:I said it before, and I will say it again. Hell is not everlasting

If you cannot then I would request you to stop preaching falsehood.

In Christ's blessings

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Common on Fri 03 Oct 2008, 9:42 pm

I already know that you believe in the doctrine that hell is eternal, Thirsty. And I also know that you think Daniel is patient. That is good. He has, and I have been too.

Warrior for Christ,
OK, I will.
Yes I know that you believe that hell is everlasting too, so I will explain the verses.


Matthew 25:46 has been the subject of confusion for many because they have an incorrect understanding of the word punishment. The punishment IS everlasting. The question is, WHAT is the punishment? Since, they refused to accept Christ, they will be exterminated, not because Christ wants it, but because they did it to themselves. Their extermination is their punishment. And since they are exterminated, that effect is everlasting.

Mark 2:29 is explained in the same way of Matthew 25:46.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 talks about everlasting destruction. First of all, lets look at destruction singular. It is destroy. To destroy means to obliterate, get rid of completely. Thus if their obliteration is eternal, we can THEN understand this verse. They will be destroyed forever. Easy.


I said it before, and I will say it again, Hell is NOT everlasting.
Oh, I didn't address you before, everything is peaceful between us. Thanks for clarifying your statement.
Anyways, God bless you Warrior.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Waqar Daniel on Fri 03 Oct 2008, 10:16 pm

common wrote:I see that this website is about, "BELIEVE WHAT I DO OR BE BANNED." ---For you will not tolerate false teaching, remember?

Can you prove it??? Can you prove that my philosophy is what you are alleging?

common wrote:I said that those SUBJECTS are controversial. And as a matter of fact, those biblical verses concerning hell ARE controversial. Everyone has misinterpretations of them and all that, YES, IT IS controversial. And I am NOT ashamed to say that.

I said the same thing that you called Biblical verses controversial. My question was and is, "how can you call the words spoken from the mouth of Almighty God controversial?" This means that you are disrespectful to God and what He said.

In your pride and ego, I will show you your blasphemy And the words of the LORD are flawless like a silver, refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times (Psalms 12:6) So how can you say verses of Bible on hell are controversial??? Do you know more than God??? Or do you think Steve wohlberg knows better than God??? Jesus said, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Mathew 25:46) What is the controversy here???

common wrote:I am seeing that you are seriously misinterpreting my words. I did not say that I needed to be encouraged. Once again, READ the post Daniel. I said, "Isn't this supposed to be an encouragement forum."

Encouraging what??? Falsehood - Never. If any one cometh to you, and bringeth not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither wish him happiness: (2 John 1:10)

common wrote:As a matter of fact Daniel. WE ALL QUOTED THE BIBLE. The problem is how we interpret those verses. My thoughts were not based on a website. I had already settled the subject and when I found that website it brought the subject out clearly so I put it out for reference if you guys would need help.

You never quoted Bible but you misquoted it. Your knowledge is based on that website that you quoted, although you wrote a summary of that article found at http://www.thetruthabouthell.org. You have simply taken the article of Steve Wohlberg and call it a True Doctrine??? Is Steve Wohlberg writer of Bible?

common wrote:Look Daniel, I never said the Bible has changed. That is putting words in my mouth. Further, let me put what you said, "Many evil-doers try to cover up their sins with this deception that hell is not real or hell is not everlasting." I said it before, and I will say it again. Hell is not everlasting. And I get the hint. You are trying to refer me as an evil-doer trying to cover up my sins. But I do not worry. Call me everything you want. You say that you do not allow people to pass rude remarks but you are doing it yourself. Come on.

You are a true sample of misquoting statements. Where did I call you an evil-doer? Point it out, second I never said that you have changed the Bible. I said, that when muslims read articles that are contradictory to Bible, they point it out that the Bible has changed. Either you cannot understand simple English or you are just trying to avoid reality. I also said that if you put your theory of hell in front of a muslim, he / she will surely tell you that you believe in falsehood. Even non-believers know that you are misquoting the Bible.

common wrote:You are labeling it as a sin when I say, "What would Jesus do." As a matter of fact, that is a good practice for when we are in trying situations. We can remember, what would our Saviour do if he were in my place? A sin! Ha!

This is really funny, you are your own judge. If this is a good practice then why didn't apostles say the same thing to those they were preaching to. They could have easily written in their Epistles, "What would Jesus do?" My question is, "Can you predict God's thoughts?"

We did this not because we do not have the right to such help but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow (2 Th 3:9)

Now tell me where did Apostles say, "What would Jesus do?" If they did not say it, then it is surely a sin because Jesus preached, taught and explained everything and you cannot predict God's thoughts.



common wrote:--And referring that to me. This is not good brothers and sisters. We can discuss without labeling and being rude. If I had a forum I would not let this happen AT ALL. I would not let any of my members, whether they agree with me on a certain point or not, go around labeling others. It would not be permitted. You can say, "I disagree with you brother," or, "sister, I believe so and so," -but not, your reply is pathetic and you are a false teacher and many other things that I have picked up. God made us as intelligent beings and we are to act that way. Look at it. What would Jesus do? Come on. Seriously? We need to start acting in unity and in Christian fellowship. Bible discussions ought not to be carried out this way. I wish for peace, I give a blessing, and I pray for change.

Aren't you telling all of us that we are immature and disrespectful and need to learn???

common wrote:The problem here, is that you have the problem of discerning WHAT is false teaching. And the doctrine of the bible on hell, that it is NOT everlasting, is a TRUE doctrine. Do you not understand? Crystal clear.

The Bible never says that - show me a verse, however Bible does tell us, "If any one cometh to you, and bringeth not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither wish him happiness: (2 John 1:10)"

It is not what you believe in or what I believe in, it is what God has said in Bible. Why are you trying to make it personal?

It is not good to have zeal without knowledge,...(Proverbs 19:2)

God bless you and your family

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Common on Sat 04 Oct 2008, 1:26 am

I already see how this is going to go. It is useless to keep going on about it. You are desperately trying to prove me wrong, and that you're right. Go ahead. I am not going to do this anymore. I have already answered your questions. You try to make this seem like I'm the bad guy and you're the good guy. So you know everything Daniel, right? God bless your soul. So me, in my pride and ego, will not keep going on like this. You call yourself Christian, but you would not behave like this if you were. You put at the end of your statements, "God bless you and your family," but it is not a blessing. That is just a way to make it seem all peaceful, when its not. OK then. All good.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 04 Oct 2008, 9:30 am

Dear Common

I was and am at peace with you and I have nothing against you. As I said, it is not what you believe in or I believe in it is what God has commanded us through Bible.

Whether you bless me as a way to smooth things down, my blessings are straight from my heart and I do mean when I write blessings at the end. Anyhow, as I said, you will remain child of this forum, and so let it be. We all love you and it is your right to contradict me or any other member. This forum is owned by everyone who is a member and I am no owner of this forum, so think of yourself as an owner of this forum. There is nothing yours or mine in Jesus Christ. Everything belongs to Jesus and we are all tools to glorify Heavenly Father through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.

May God bless you and your family in Jesus name. AMEN.

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Re: An Announcement

Post  warrior4christ on Sat 04 Oct 2008, 3:01 pm

Correction

I gave wrong reference the following verse;

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Mark 3:29

Common you commented on the verses I quoted from the Bible, so I will explain it to you using various commentaries.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Mathew 25:46)

Into everlasting punishment - The original word translated here as “punishment” means torment, or suffering inflicted for crime. The noun is used but in one other place in the New Testament - 1Jo_4:18; “Fear hath ‘torment.’” The verb from which the noun is derived is twice used - Act_4:21; 2Pe_2:9. In all these places it denotes anguish, suffering, punishment. It does not mean simply a “state or condition,” but absolute, positive suffering; and if this word does not teach it, no word “could” express the idea that the wicked would suffer. It has been contended that the sufferings of the wicked will not be eternal or without end. It is not the purpose of these notes to enter into debates of that kind further than to ascertain the meaning of the language used by the sacred writers. In regard to the meaning of the word “everlasting” in this place, it is to be observed:

The original word - αἰώνιον aionion - is employed in the New Testament 66 times. Of these, in 51 instances it is used of the happiness of the righteous; in two, of God’s existence; in six, of the church and the Messiah’s kingdom; and in the remaining seven, of the future punishment of the wicked. If in these seven instances we attach to the word the idea of limited duration, consistency requires that the same idea of limited duration should be given it in the 51 cases of its application to the future glory of the righteous, and the two instances of its application to God’s existence, and the six eases of its appropriation to the future reign of the Messiah and the glory and perpetuity of the church. But no one will presume to deny that in these instances it denotes unlimited duration, and therefore, in accordance with the sound laws of interpretation and of language itself, the same sense of unlimited duration must be given it when used of future punishment - Owen, in loc.

Albert Barnes: Notes on Bible

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment - No appeal, no remedy, to all eternity! No end to the punishment of those whose final impenitence manifests in them an eternal will and desire to sin. By dying in a settled opposition to God, they cast themselves into a necessity of continuing in an eternal aversion from him.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on Bible

The wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment. Sentence will then be executed speedily, and no reprieve granted, nor any time allowed to move in arrest of judgment. The execution of the wicked is first mentioned; for first the tares are gathered and burned. Note,

(1.) The punishment of the wicked in the future state will be an everlasting punishment, for that state is an unalterable state. It can neither be thought that sinners should change their own natures, nor that God should give his grace to change them, when in this world the day of grace was misspent, the Spirit of grace resisted, and the means of grace abused and baffled.

(2.) The wicked shall be made to go away into that punishment; not that they will go voluntarily, no, they are driven from light into darkness; but it bespeaks an irresistible conviction of guilt, and a final despair of mercy.

MAthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

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