A Prophet Like Moses

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A Prophet Like Moses

Post  lovingJesus on Tue 09 Jun 2009, 3:34 pm

Deuteronomy 18:15-18 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers -it is to him you shall listen- ...17 And the LORD said to me...I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
Moses
Moses went up into the mountain.
Moses took Aaron up as the representative of the Priesthood.
Moses received and taught the sayings of God (Commandments of God).
The people received them with astonishment but said we will obey all that God has said.
The Covenant was sealed in the Law of Ten Commandments.
The Law was established upon the rock mountain of Horeb (Sinai).

Jesus Christ
Jesus went up into a high mountain (Matt. 51; Luke 612)
Jesus took the twelve Apostles up on the mountain as representatives of the New Testament Priesthood.
Jesus taught the sayings of God (New Covenant Commandments).
The people were astonished at his doctrine (Commandments, teachings).
The New Covenant is sealed in the Commandments of Jesus.
Jesus said they who kept his sayings (Commandments) would be like a wise man who built his house upon a rock.






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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  christian on Wed 10 Jun 2009, 9:58 pm

Very nice information and thank you for sharing it here.

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy on Wed 17 Jun 2009, 10:23 pm

Moses was not son of God
Moses got married and died a natural death
Moses didn’t die on the cross neither rose again
Moses fought the Holy war

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Thu 18 Jun 2009, 3:53 pm

Derprinz/googleboy wrote:Moses got married and died a natural death
Yes Moses got married but he never married a child, a woman double his age, his daughter-in-law, never had a political marriage and so on. Moses never died as a result of poisoning by a Jewish woman named Safiyah. Moses never died as a result of revenge. Moses never longed for a son because God blessed him.


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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy2 on Fri 19 Jun 2009, 2:53 pm

you are really a funny person
u only reply by attacking islam
can u first proove your belief
how can Jesus be a prophet like moses
while
Moses was not son of God or God ...
Moses got married and died a natural death
Moses didn’t die on the cross neither rose again
Moses fought the Holy war

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Fri 19 Jun 2009, 3:47 pm

Derprinz, the feeling is mutual. Didn't you come to show that Koran is superior, you attacked first and I told you that I do not allow Inter-faith dialogues. We are peace-loving people, but you kept on coming back. So the things you made fun of in the Bible are found in the Koran too. I just showed you the verses and it is not my problem if you did not know that.

Answer to your Question
The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers - it is to him you shall listen. (Deut 18:15)
In the whole Torah, this is only claim Moses made to being a Prophet. Muslims claim that from your brothers talks of Ishmael, therefore, Mohammed is prophesied in this verse.

First let us deal with this misconception From your brothers. To better understand this phrase, let us look at
When ... you say "Let us set a king over us like the nations around us, "be sure to appoint over you the king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. (Deuteronomy 17:14-15)
King Saul was not an Arabian but a Jew, King David and so on were all Jews. No one went to Arabia to look for a descendant of Ishmael to be a king of Israel.

To make it more clear what Moses was talking of, let us look at
Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those miraculous signs and wonders... For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel. (Deuteronomy 34:10-12)
Who performed such miracles - David? NO, Solomon? NO, Isaiah? NO, Mohammed? NEVER then who? It was only Jesus and His miracles are not only mentioned in the Bible but also in Koran.

Jesus like Moses

  1. Just as there were 400 years of silence before God sent Moses to deliver Israel from her bondage to Pharaoh, so there were 400 of years of silence before God sent His own Son, Jesus the Messiah, to utterly deliver Israel from her ultimate bondage to sin and death.
  2. Both Moses and Jesus were sent from God (Ex. 3:1-10; John 8:42).
  3. Both Moses and Jews were Jews (Ex. 2:1-2; Matt. 1:1-16; Luke 1-2; Heb. 7:14). (Note: This is no small thing, since Muslims claim that Muhammad is the prophet Moses referred to here; which is obviously incorrect, since the Mashiach must be a Jew - see John 4:24).
  4. Both had faithful Jewish parents (Ex. 2:2; Heb. 11:23; Matt. 2:13-14).
  5. Both were born under foreign rule (Ex. 1:8-14; Luke 2:1).
  6. Both were threatened by wicked kings (Ex. 1:15-16; Matt. 2:16).
  7. Both Moses and Jesus spent their early years in Egypt, miraculously protected from those who sought their lives (Ex. 2:10; Matt. 2:14-15).
  8. Both rejected the possibility to become rulers in this age. Moses was raised as a son in the royal family and could have enjoyed a lavish lifestyle as a powerful ruler, but he chose differently (Heb. 11:24); Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matt. 4:8-9), but rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of Israel.
  9. Both Moses and Jesus were "sent from a mountain of God" to free Israel. Moses was sent from (physical) Mount Sinai in Midian, Arabia; Yeshua was sent from a spiritual "Mount Zion" in Heaven (Heb. 12:22).
  10. Both were initially rejected by the Jews (Ex. 32:1; Isa. 53: 3; Matt. 27:21-2;
    Rom. 11:25).
  11. Both were accepted by Gentiles (Moses by the Midianites (Ex. 2:14-22); Jesus by the world (Acts 10:45; 1 Tim. 3:16)).
  12. Both were criticized by their families (Num. 12:1; Mark 3:20-1).
  13. Both knew God panim l'panim (face to face). God spoke directly to both Moses and Jesus (Ex. 3:1-10; Deut. 34:10; Luke 9:34-36). All other prophets received their revelation by visions or dreams (Deut. 34:10; John 1:18). Both were authoritative spokesmen for God (Matt. 17:5; John 3:34).
  14. Both were teachers (Deut 4:1-5; Matt. 22:16; John 3:2).
  15. Both revealed God's Name (Ex. 3:13-14; John 17:6, 11-12).
  16. Both were faithful to God (Num. 12:5-7; Heb. 3:1-2).
  17. Both gave the people bread from Heaven (Ex. 16:14-15; Matt. 14:19-20) and performed various miracles (Ex. 4:21-8; Deut. 34:10-12; John 5:36; 12:37-8).
  18. Both were appointed as saviors of Israel (Moses as Israel's deliverer from the bondage to Pharaoh; Jesus as Israel's deliverer from the bondage to Satan).
  19. Both were shepherds of Israel (Moses led the Israelites through the wilderness (Ex. 3:1; Numbers), Jesus led His followers as the Good Shepherd (John 10:10-11; Matt. 9:36)).
  20. Both were humble servants of the LORD (Num 12:3; Luke 2:46-7; Phil. 2:8-9).
  21. Both fasted for forty days in the wilderness (Ex. 34:28; Matt. 4:2).
  22. Both were Mediators of a covenant of blood: Moses of the older covenant (Exodus 24:7-8) and Jesus of the new covenant (Matt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 9:11-15; 1 Cor. 11:25; 2 Cor. 3:6).
  23. Both offered to die on behalf of the people's sins (Ex. 32:30-33; John 17).
  24. Just as Moses instituted the LORD's Passover on Nisan 14 as the means by which the Angel of death would pass over those Israelites who trusted in God's promise regarding the blood of the lamb (Ex. 12:11-12), so Jesus offered Himself as the sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29).
  25. Just as Moses brought about the "resurrection" of the children of Israel as they passed through the Red Sea; so Jesus became the Firstfruits of resurrection as He rose from the dead.
  26. Just as the Torah was given to Israel fifty days after the Exodus from Egypt (on Pentecost or Shavu'ot), so Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to form the Church fifty days after His resurrection.
  27. Both of their faces shone with the glory of heaven - Moses on Mount Sinai (Ex. 34:34-5) and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:2).
  28. As Moses lifted up the brazen serpent in the wilderness to heal his people (Num. 21:8-9); so Jesus was lifted up on the cross to heal all believers from their sin (John 12:32).
  29. As Moses conquered the great enemy of Israel, the Amalekites with his upraised arms (Ex. 17:11), so Jesus conquered our ultimate enemy of sin and death by His upraised arms on the cross (John 19:18).
  30. As Moses sent twelve spies to explore Canaan (Num. 13), so Jesus sent twelve apostles to reach the world (Matt 10:1); and as Moses appointed seventy rulers over Israel (Num. 11:16-7), so Jesus anointed seventy disciples to teach the nations (Luke 10:1).

Jesus Himself said, For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me: for he wrote of me. (John 5:46)

Koran 28:48
But (now) when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him (Muhammad), like those which were sent to Moses."

Therefore, as we read through Koran and Bible, Mohammed no way qualifies as a Prophet like Moses. Listen to what the Koran says, at least believe in your word of Allah.

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy3 on Fri 19 Jun 2009, 11:04 pm

In the FIRST place Jesus is not
like Moses, because, according to you - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses
is not God
SECONDLY, according to you - 'JESUS DIED
FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Mose s did not have to die for the
sins of the world.
THIRDLY, according to you -
'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go
there.

since you raised the issue of prophet Muhammed in that verse let me tell you that :

1-Father and Mother
Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father
and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father
2-Miraculous Birth
Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course,
i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was
created by a special miracle
3-Marriage Ties
Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus
remained a bachelor all his life
4-Jesus Rejected by his People
Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people
in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to
Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they
acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The
Arabs too made Muhummed's life imposs ible. He suffered very badly
at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to
emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the
Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But
according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN
RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, ofter two thousand
years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejeted him.
5-"Other-Wordly" Kingdom
Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet
means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man
and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without
any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of
life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person
wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or
monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital
punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you
remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath
Day , and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There
are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital
punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses.
Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people.
There are instances in the Bible of persons who wer e given gift of
prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their
directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the
face of stubborn rejection of their mesage, were the prophets lot,
Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver
the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus
(Peace b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel
clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman
Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a
convincing point in his defence to refute the false charg e: JESUS
ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF
THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE
DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM
HENCE"(John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that
though Jesus might not be in full possessio n of his mental
faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus
claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to
be a Prophet.
6-No New Laws
Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for
their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the
Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the
guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in
barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-m others; they
buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and
gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs
before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE
HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE
REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATI ON.' There was hardly anything to
distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they
were animals in human form.
"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the
words of Thomas Carlysle, 'into torch-bearers of light and
learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO
LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD
PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE
WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS
GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT
GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR
AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREA
SECTION OF THE WORLD. ...' The fact is that Muhummed gave his
people a Law and Order they never had before.
"As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he
might be an imposter with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus
took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion
- no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK
NOT THAT IAM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: IAM NOT COME
TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN
AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE
LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words
he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to
fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand-
unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff
the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge
trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger
of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the
Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the
commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did
a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or
'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which
charges they al wasy levied against his disciples, but never
against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws
of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new
religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed.
7-How they Departed
Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to
Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross.
8-Heavenly Abode
Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to
you, Jesus in heaven.

Ishmael The First Born
so far what I have done is to prove only one point out of
the whole prophecy- that is proving the phrase 'LIKE UNTO THEE' -
'Like You' 'Like Moses'. The Prophecy is much more than this single
phrase which reads as follows : "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET
FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......." The emphasis is on
the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the
Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their
'brethren' would undoubtedly be the arabs. You see, the Holy Bible
s peaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives -
Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN-
'......And Abraham(11) called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare
Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS
SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was
thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his
foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael
was the ONLY son and sed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified
between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through
Sarah, named Isaac, wh o was very much the junior to his brother
Ishmael.
Arabs and Jews
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then
they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN
of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews
and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to
one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN
THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE
(ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis
25:18
). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the
Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of
the Israeli tes beause he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of
Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR
BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly
mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must
arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among the
mselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS
FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!Words in the Mouth
"The prophecy proceeds further:'.......AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO
HIS MOUTH.......' What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my
words in your mouth'?
If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about
which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat
after me what I utter i.e.:
"SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;
ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;
HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:
AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.
(Holy Qur'an 112:1-4)( I read them in Arabic )
Would I not be putting these unheard words of a foreign tongue
which you utter, into your mouth?
In an identical manner, the words of the Holy
Qur'an, the Revelation vouchsafed by the Almighty God to Muhummed,
were revealed.
History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in
a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th
night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel
Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue:'IQRA' which means READ!
or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed w as terrified and in his
bewilderment replied that he was not NOT LEARNED! The angel
commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time
the angel continues.
Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to
repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into
his mouth:
"READ! IN THE NAME OF THE LORD AND CHERISHER, WHO CREATED-
CREATED MAN, FROM A (MERE) CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD:
READ! AND THY LORD IS MOST BOUNTIFUL,-
HE WHO TAUGHT (THE USE OF) THE PEN,
TAUGHT MAN THAT WHICH HE KNEW NOT".(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)

These are the first five verses which were revealed to Muhummed
which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy
Qur'an.Grave Warning
God knew that
there would be people like you who will flippantly, light-heartedly
discount his words, so he followed up Deuteronomy 18:18 with a dire
warning: "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, " (it is going to happen)
"THAT WHOSOEVER WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK
IN MY NAME, I WILL REQUIRE IT OF HIM. (in the Catholic Bible the
ending words are - "I will be the revenger", I will take vengeance
from him - I will take revenge!) "Does not this terrify you? God
Almighty is threathening revenge! We shake in our pants if some
hoodlum threathens us, yet you have no fear of God's warning?"
in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18,
we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the
words-'.....MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose
name is Muhummed speaking?"
Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except
the 9th begin with the formula: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS,
MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the
Holy formula. But the Christian begins: "In the name of the Father,
son and holy ghost.'"
In New Testament times, we find that the Jews were still expecting
the fulfilment of the prophecy of 'ONE LIKE MOSES', refer John
1:19-25. When Jesus claimed to be the Messiah of the Jews,the Jews
began to enquire as to where was Elias? The Jews had a parallel
prophecy that before the coming of the Messiah, Elias must come
first in his second coming. Jesus confirms this Jewish belief:
".......ELIAS TRULY SHALL FIRST COME, AND RESTORE ALL THINGS.
BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT ELIAS IS COME ALREADY, AND THEY KNEW HIM
NOT,...THEN THE DISCIPLES UNDERSTOOD THAT HE SPAKE UNTO THEM OF
JOHN THE BAPTIST."(Matthew 17:11-13). According to the New
Testament the Jews were not the ones to s wallow the words of any
would-be Messiah. In their investigations they underwent intense
difficulties in order to find their true Messiah. And this the
Gospel of John confirms: "AND THIS IS THE RECORD OF JOHN,"(the
Baptist) "WHEN THE JEWS SENT PRIESTS AND LEVITES FROM JERUSALEM TO
ASK HIM, WHO ART THOU? AND HE CONFESSED AND DENIED NOT; BUT
CONFESSED, I AM NOT THE CHRIST." (This was only natural because
there can't be two Messiahs (14) at the same time. If Jesus was the
Christ then John couldn't be the Christ!) "AND THEY ASKED HIM, WHAT
THEN? ART THOU ELIAS? AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT." (Here Joh n the
Baptist contradicts Jesus! Jesus says that John is "Elias" and John
denies that he is what Jesus ascribes him to be. One of the TWO
(Jesus or John), God forbid!, is difinitely not speaking the TRUTH!
On the testimony of Jesus himself, John the Baptist was the
greatest of the Israelite prophet s:"VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, AMOUNG
THEM THAT ARE BORN OF WOMEN THERE HAS NOT RISENA GREATER THAN JOHN
THE BAPTIST:... (Matthew 11:11).
We Muslims know John the Baptist as Hazrut YAHYAA
Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him). We revere him as a true
prophet of Allah. The Holy Prophet Jesus known to us as Hazrut ISAA
Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him), is also esteemed as one of the
mightiest messenger of the Almighty. How can we Musl ims impute
lies to either of them? We leave this problem between Jesus and
John for the Christians to solve, for their "sacred scriptures
abound in discrepancies which they have been glossing over as the
"dark sayings of Jesus"(15). We Muslims are really interested in
the last questions posed to Jo hn the Baptist by the Jewish elite-
"ART THOU THAT PROPHET? AND HE ANSWERED, NO."(John 1:21)
Three Questions!
Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed
to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as
answers. To recapitulate:-
1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2) ART THOU ELIAS?
3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?
But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two
questions implied here. To make doubly clear that the Jews
definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when
they were interogating John the Baptist, let us read the
remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:
"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHEY BAPTIZEST THOU
THEN, IF THOU BE
a) NOT THAT CHRIST,
b) NOR ELIAS,
c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?"(John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfilment of THREE distinct
prophecies: One, the coming of CHRIST. Two the coming of ELIAS, and
Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.
"That Prophet"
If we look up any Bible which has a concordance or
cross-references, the we will find in the marginal note where the
words "the Prophet", or "that Prophet" occur in John 1:25, that
these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18. And
that 'that prophet' - 'the prophet like Moses' - "L IKE UNTO THEE",
we have proved through overwhelming evidence that he was MUHUMMED
and not Jesus!
from ahmad deedat book
http://ia310839.us.archive.org/3/items/Shk_Ahmed_Deedats_Books/What_The_Bible_Says_About_Muhammad_pbuh.pdf
http://english.truthway.tv/

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Littlelamb on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 3:43 am

Googleboy3,

I do not look to a prophet, or to any man. For men are full of themselves, selfish and lack MERCY and GRACE. I look to the ONE TRUE and LIVING GOD, who SENT HIS ONLY SON, to REDEEM me. I am a CHILD of the MOST HIGH, because of the BLOOD that JESUS shed on CALVARY. HE SHED HIS BLOOD for all sinners, past, present and future. ONE SACRIFICE, that covered a world of sins, for all who will ACCEPT HIS SACRIFICE.

My DEBT of SIN, is now PAID IN FULL.

This is MERCY and GRACE, that only comes from a LORD and SAVIOR who LOVES us, so much, HE was willing to lay down HIS LIFE, so that we can OBTAIN LIFE EVERLASTING. Surely, you can understand this. JESUS, became the HIGH PRIEST, because no man, could fulfill the sacrifice needed, to bring GOD'S PEOPLE REDEMPTION.

HE LOVES you. Or you wouldn't keep coming here, under false names, with the agenda that you have. My prayer remains, that you will open your eyes and ears, to the TRUTH found only in the LIVING WORD of GOD.

May you be BLESSED with the SAVING GRACE, that JESUS offers. I love you

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy3 on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 3:37 pm

thanks Littlelamb

i really appreciate your feelings

i want to say that i have the same feelings for you or i wouldn't come and reply

but when u say jesus died four our sins etc i found that illogical

why does anyone have to die for our sins when God, the All-Merciful, could as easily give us forgiveness if we ask for it? Why does He have to make someone suffer for our sins or for someone else's sins? Isn't that unjust of Him?

According to the Bible the way to redemption could be obtained without the need for sacrifice. The Bible says: :
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Clearly the soul that sins shall die. Clearly that no one shall bear the iniquity (sins) of others. So Jesus cannot bear the sins of others either. If one is righteous then it shall be upon him, and if one commits a sin then it shall be upon him, and not on Jesus. Finally, the way to repentance and forgiveness is by turning from all sins, doing what is right, and keeping the commandments

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 3:46 pm

Sorry Derprinz you are not allowed to post as members have objected to the use of your language. I don't mind your presence as I have been discussing with you.

Let me answer your post.

The verse says prophet like unto Moses. So when we compare Jesus, we compare them of their lives as prophets. Certainly Moses is no God.

I gave you the yardstick of prophet like unto Moses and that is Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those miraculous signs and wonders... For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel. (Deuteronomy 34:10-12)

Did Mohmmed knew God face to face, did he do any miracles, and secondly Mohammed was no Israelite. The rest you can check it up from the 30 point list I gave you.

I would love to debate with you but due to objections made by members, I am sorry. For you really can go over the board.

I hope you I will not see you again.


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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy4 on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 3:50 pm

i am not derprinz
and what language i have used ??

if you are so sure about your belief and that it is true
why are you banning me ??

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 3:59 pm

Yes you are, you are only changing IDs, why do you lie and deceive? Your writing style is same, you use same IP so what other proof do you need? Secondly who told you that I ran away. You have quite a wild imagination.

Are you short of memory, did you forget foul language you used
Derprinz/googleboy3 wrote:Is God white, black or yellow?
how tall is he?
short or tall?
fat or slim?
does He also have a Sorry CHRISTIAN TALK is a Christian Discussion Board like
women do? Does He have a big breast like women and not a flat one like men?
Does
he breath oxygen like us? If not, then does He have lungs like us?
Does He eat? If not, then does He have a stomach that digests
and processes all of the food that it intakes like our stomachs do?

Does His Body require vitamins, minerals, calcium, proteins, etc.... to remain
surviving like ours do?

Does GOD have blood and skin? Does He get nose bleeds, and skin cuts that cause
bleeding like us?

If He has blood, does He also have a kidney for cleaning His blood?

And if GOD Almighty's Body doesn't process food, then why would He then need a bladder,
kidney, butt and a Sorry this is a Christian Discussion Board or Sorry CHRISTIAN TALK is a Christian Discussion Board? If He doesn't urine or do a
"number 2" like we do after we eat and drink, then what is the purpose of
Him having these parts? Or does He truly Have them??
Look in the mirror....do you really think God is like that ??
Do you call it a decent language?

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy4 on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 5:29 pm

Did Mohmmed knew God face to face, did he do any miracles, and secondly Mohammed was no Israelite.
haven't u read what i wrote ?
Muhummed is from among the brethren of
the Israelites beause he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of
Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR
BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly
mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must
arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS
FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

1 John 4
11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love
one another.
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and
his love is made complete in us.

13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.




But did Moses know GOD Almighty face to face


Deuteronomy 34

5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to
this day no one knows where his grave is.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor
his strength gone.
8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of
weeping and mourning was over.
9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his
hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.

10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew
face to face,

11 who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt—to
Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land.
12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses
did in the sight of all Israel.


As we clearly saw above, Moses never knew GOD Almighty face to face on the literal sense.
No one has ever seen GOD Almighty or the Face of GOD Almighty.

remark: Ironically, in the books of Moses above, we even read
about the details of his death and burial story. Can u tell me who wrote about Moses death in Moses' books?


Miracles granted to other Prophets before Prophet
Muhammad (Peace be upon him) were only intended for that time only, and only
for those people present at that time, as they were the only ones who witnessed
such incidents and even there were no traces left behind for us to track as
well.
let me remind you something
Miracles may be a proof for those who witness them, but
mean nothing to others

We Muslims believe that Prophet
Muhammad (Peace be upon him) performed many miracles
can you proove to me that Jesus gave life to the dead and healed
born blind and lepers

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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 6:50 pm

Derprinz didn't you read the explanation I gave you for "among your brethren". Ishmael was not even a half brother of Isaac. He was from a servant and out of wedlock whom Sarah gave to Abraham for the continuation of the seed according to the statutes of King Hammurabi.

Jews never considered Ishmaelites as their brothers but did consider them as their enemies. Give some historical proof.
Derprinz/googleboy4 wrote:There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
Who told you this? You are just forcing your thoughts. Brothers among Jews were the twelve tribes and not Ishmaelites. I have already mentioned this verse
When ... you say "Let us set a king over us like the nations around us, "be sure to appoint over you the king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. (Deuteronomy 17:14-15)
It clearly says that the king should be among their brothers and no foreigner. So how come a foreigner be a brother to an Israelite? Only you can make so to prove your point.

Moses saw God face to face
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. (Exodus 33:11)

How can you say that Moses never saw God face to face? The death of Moses and burial was recorded by Joshua and what is wrong with it?
Derprinz/googleboy4 wrote:Miracles granted to other Prophets before Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) were only intended for that time only, and only for those people present at that time, as they were the only ones who witnessed such incidents and even there were no traces left behind for us to track as well. let me remind you something “Miracles may be a proof for those who witness them, but mean nothing to others We Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) performed many miracles can you proove to me that Jesus gave life to the dead and healed born blind and lepers
You muslims may believe that Mohammed performed miracles but Koran says contrary to what you are claiming here.

The Koran clearly says But (now) when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him (Muhammad), like those which were sent to Moses." (Koran 28:48)

Therefore, your claim that Mohammed did miracles is totally false and made up story.
Derprinz/googleboy4 wrote:can you proove to me that Jesus gave life to the dead and healed born blind and lepers
Absolutely YES and for this I will not use Bible.

Josephus[quote]Jospehus, a renown Jewish historian from the first century, wrote books like "Wars" and the "Antquities of the Jews". He worked under Roman authority and took great care not to offend the Romans. His writing about the Jewish wars proved highly accurate and was corrobated by Tacitus and archaeological excavations at Masada. He wrote about Jesus:
"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." Antiquities of the Jews, book XVIII, Chapter 3.3.
Tacitus
Tacitus was a first-century Roman and is considered as one of the most accurate historians of that time period. Giving account about the fire of Rome, he wrote:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular." The Annals, book XV 44.

Tacitus confirmed as well that Christians were named after Jesus and that they were spreading even up to Rome. Tacitus declares as well that Jesus died under the hands of Pontius Pilate. The "mischievous superstition" probably refers to Jesus' resurrection.
Pliny the Younger
He was a Roman writer and an administrator. He describes the early Christian worship practices in a letter to the Emperor Trajan.

"They (the Christians) asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food." The Letters, 10:96.

Here Christians are referred to meet together on a regular basis and acknowledging Jesus as being God. Following Jesus meant to be a person of moral integrity ("not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so").
Thallus
He is a writer from the first century. However none of his writings are still in existence. Only a few citations are found in other writers' books. Julius Africanus (220 A.D.) quoted Thallus when discussing the darkness that followed Jesus' crucifixion.
Talmud
The Talmud contains a vast collection of Jewish laws and traditions. It also contains some quotes written by Jews who were opposed to Christianity; and offers indirectly some insights about Jesus, especially in its writing between 70 A.D. and 200 A.D., in the so-called Tannaitic Period. Their most renowned text is:

"They hanged Yeshu on the Sabbath of the Passover. But for forty days before that a herald went in front of him (crying), "Yeshu is to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and seduced Israel and lead them away from God. Anyone who can provide evidence on his behalf should come forward to defend him." When, however, nothing favorable about him was found, he was hanged on the Sabbath of the Passover." Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a.
Lucian of Samosata
Lucian, a Greek writer from the second-century, loved to offer sarcastic remarks about Christianity. Although he is sarcastic, he confirms indirectly what is written in the gospels.

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property." Lucian of Samosata, Death of Pelegrine.

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1 in Roberts, Alexander and James Donaldson, ed. Ante-Nicene Christian Library: Translations of the Writings of the Fathers. Vol. 1 Edingburgh: T & T Clark, 1867.
Please read below...



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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 7:08 pm

Evidence from Koran

Koran 2:87
“And We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear miracles”

Koran 5:112-114
“When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to God, if ye are true believers. They said: We desire to eat of it and our hearts be at rest, and that We may know that you have spoken truth to us, and that We may be witnesses thereof. Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'O God, our Lord, send down for us a Table laden with food out of heaven, that shall be for us a recurring festival, the first and last of us, and a miracle from You. And provide us our sustenance, for You are the best of providers!”

Koran 3:46
While still in cradle
“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.”

Koran 3:49
“I create for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with God’s permission.”

Koran 3:49
“I also heal the blind and the leper.”

So do not ask for proof of Jesus miracles, for I can prove them to you from other sources than Bible. Believe in Koran for this is your holy book. Why do you question your koran.

Certainly you cannot prove a single miracle of Mohammed as he did none or God did not do any miracle through him and it is also written in Koran.



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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 22 Jun 2009, 2:17 am

first you know that i didn't say jesus didn't do miracles
i said quran is a living miracle
where is the living miracle of Jesus ?

Does the Quran Say That Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Did Not Perform Any Miracles?



Verse # 1


Surah 2:118


And they that know not say, 'Why does God not speak to us? Why does
a sign (ayatun) not come to us?'
So spoke those before them as these men say;
their hearts are much alike. Yet We have made clear the signs (bayyanna al-ayati)
unto a people who are sure.



This verse does not show that the Prophet did not
perform miracles. This verse was sent down in Madinah and the biggest opinion was that
this was referring to the Jews and Christians. Especially the Jews told Prophet Muhammad
(PBUH) to have God talk to them. When they said that, God revealed this verse.
(Tafsir
of Tabari, Source: Online)



This happened after Mecca when the Prophet would
have done the miracle of the moon splitting to the Meccan Arabs.






Verse # 2


Surah 2:145


Yet if thou shouldst bring to those that have been given the Book every
sign (ayatun), they will not follow thy direction; thou art not a follower of their
direction, neither are they followers of one another's direction. If thou followest their
caprices, after the knowledge that has come to thee, then thou wilt surely be among the
evildoers.


Again this does not deny that Prophet Muhammad
(PBUH) performed miracles. God is simply telling the Prophet that if he came with every
kind of proof and unlimited number of miracles then they still would not believe in him.
(Tafsir
of Ibn Kathir, Source: Online) The verse does not show that the Prophet
did not perform any miracles.






Verse # 3


Surah 6:37


They also say, 'Why has no sign (ayatun) been sent down upon him
from his Lord?
' Say: 'Surely God is able to send down a sign (ayatan), but most
of them know not.'


The sign that they are saying that has not been
sent down to them are from the signs that they are asking for like the ones they demanded
in Surah 17:90-93. However, God is saying that he could send them down if he wished but
'they know not'. 'They know not' means that they don't know what trial and infliction they
will go through if God did indeed send down the signs they are asking for and rejected
them.
(Tafsir of Jalalyn, Source:
Online)



So the verse does not deny that the Prophet
Muhammad (PBUH) ever showed them signs. But only the signs that they specifically asked
for. Just like how the people of Thamud asking Salih to have God make a she camel to come
out of the mountain (Surah 17:59) or like how the disciples asked Jesus to have God send
them down a table from heaven (Surah 5:112) and God warned that if anyone of them ever
disbelieved after He sent down the sign then He would punish them worse than anyone (Surah
5:115).



So the verse is basically saying that they don't
know the consequences of what they are getting themselves into for asking for such
specific signs.



(Tafsir of Jalalyn, Source: Online)





Verse # 4


Surah 6:109


They have sworn by God the most earnest oaths if a sign (ayatun)
comes to them they will believe in it
. Say: 'Signs (al-ayatu) are only with
God.' What will make you realize that, when it comes, they will not believe?


Same thing like the previous verse. They are
asking for specific signs.
(Tafsir of Jalalyn, Source: Online) This does not deny that the Prophet did
not perform any signs at all. One reason we see that God is not sending down the signs
they are requesting is because due to his omniscience He knows they won't believe just
like how the previous generations never believed.






Verse #s 5, 6 and 7


Surah 10:20


They say, 'Why has a sign (ayatun) not been sent down upon him
from his Lord?
' Say: 'The Unseen belongs only to God. Then watch and wait; I shall be
with you watching and waiting.'


Surah 13:7


The unbelievers say, 'Why has a sign (ayatun) not been sent down
upon him from his Lord?' Thou art ONLY a warner
, and a guide to every people.


Surah 13:27


The unbelievers say, 'Why has a sign (ayatun) not been sent down
upon him from his Lord?
' Say: 'God leads astray whomsoever He will, and He guides to
Him all who are penitent.'


Three possible explanations.


One is that they keep demanding the signs that
they were specifically asking for.
(Tafsir of Qurtubi, Source: Online) They would demand things like turning
Safa into gold, making the mountains surrounding Mecca disappear and in its place rivers
and gardens etc.
(Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, Source: Online)



Secondly, just because the disbelievers keep
asking for a sign that does not mean that a sign has never been sent down to them.
Disbelievers will keep asking a sign. They will never believe. Just like I mentioned when
explaining Verse #2.



Thirdly, even if the sign is given to them they
want to persist and be stubborn and ask for a miracle that they want.






Here is a good example from the Gospel of Mark
8:11-12



Mark 8:11-13


11The Pharisees came and began to question
Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven. 12He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask
for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it."


Here is the commentary.....

The leaven of the Pharisees



1. (11-12) They ask for a sign from heaven a. They are not
looking simply for an earthly miracle, but a dramatic sign from the sky; for something
like Elijah's fire from heaven

i. Tested should be tempted
ii. This unbelief caused Jesus pain

b. Jesus refuses, because His miracles are not for the sake of convincing hardened
unbelievers, but they show the power of God in the context of mercy



Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1138987582-4181.html



They would still persist in asking Jesus for a
miracle even after he did several such as raising the dead back to life, curing the blind
etc.






Verse # 8


Surah 17:59


Naught prevented Us from sending the signs (bial-ayati) but that
the ancients cried lies to them; and We brought Thamood the She-camel visible, but they
did her wrong. And We do not send the signs, except to frighten.


Again from sending the signs that the Quraysh
specifically asked for just like how Thamud specifically asked for the she camel.
(Tafsir
of Qurtubi, Source: Online) God did not send it down to them as a
mercy. Because God knows that if He sent the signs they asked for down to them they would
still disbelieve. If God sent it down to them and they still disbelieved then He would
have no choice but to destroy them. So it was for their own good.



Again the verse does not state that no signs have
ever been sent down, just the ones that they specifically asked for.






Verse # 9


Surah 17:90-93


They say, 'We will not believe thee till thou makest a spring to gush
forth from the earth for us, or till thou possessest a garden of plants and vines, and
thou makest rivers to gush forth abundantly all amongst it, or till thou makest heaven to
fall, as thou assertest, on us in fragments, or thou bringest God and the angels as a
surety, or till thou possessest a house of gold ornament, or till thou goest up into
heaven; and we will not believe thy going up till thou bringest down on us a book that we
may read. Say: 'Glory be to my Lord. Am I aught BUT A MORTAL, a Messenger?'


They asked the Prophet to do all this and the
Prophet is simply telling them that he is only a human being just like them. He couldn't
do those things. His only task was to deliver the message of God to them. Only God can do
these things. Not the Prophet of himself
(Tafsir of Tabari, Source: Online)



How does this verse show that the Quran says that
the Prophet did not do any miracles? Yes, it shows that the Prophet could not do miracles
on his own and only by the permission of God. But where does it show that the did not do
any miracles at all?



Verse # 10


Surah 28:48


Yet when the truth came to them 'from Ourselves, they said, 'Why has he
not been given the like' of that Moses was given?
' But they, did they not disbelieve
also in what Moses was given aforetime? They said, 'A pair of sorceries mutually
supporting each other.' They said, 'We disbelieve both.'


Again they are demanding specific signs. They are
demanding signs similar to Moses such as the locusts, the stick turning into a snake
miracles, the white hand miracle, the parting of the sea etc.
(Tafsir of Ibn
Kathir, Source: Online)






Verse # 11


Surah 29:48-51


Not before this didst thou recite any Book, or inscribe it with thy right
hand, for then those who follow falsehood would have doubted. Nay; rather it is signs,
clear signs (ayatun bayyinatun) IN THE BREASTS of those who have been given knowledge; and
none denies Our signs but the evildoers. They say, 'Why have signs (ayatun) not been sent
down upon him from his Lord?' Say: 'The signs (al-ayatu) are only with God, and I am only
a plain warner.' What, is it not SUFFICIENT for them that We have sent down upon
thee the Book that is recited to them?
Surely in that is a mercy, and a reminder
to a people who believe.


Sam Shamoun is trying to use this verse to show
that Allah is saying that the Quran is a sufficient enough sign and therefore no other
sign should be sent down by Him. Because if God did, then it would contradict this verse.



Again the sign of the moon splitting was shown to
them but they just called it magic.
(Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, Source: Online) To them, these
were not signs. It was just magic.



As for verse 51, well this is talking about a
different situation and is not referring to the same people in verse 50.



Verse 51 was sent down because there were a group
of people from the companions of the Prophet who copied some things from the books of the
Jews and used to read it. Then verse 51 came down rebuking them that the Quran is enough
for their salvation. Even the Prophet said that if Moses was alive today then he would
follow him.
(Tafsir of Tabari, Source: Online) and (Tafsir of Qurtuby, Source: Online)






Conclusion


The Quran needs to be read as a whole
and in context. The context of the verses need to be known as well. By connecting all the
dots together and reading the verses all together and with understanding we see that the
Quran does indeed confirm that the glorious Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did perform miracles,
however in the eyes of the disbelievers this was nothing more than magic and they still
kept on demanding signs. Just because they did not receive the specific signs that they
asked for that does not mean that no signs were showed to them at all.


for more help http://answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/quran_talks_about_prophet_miracles.htm

googleboy5
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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

Post  Littlelamb on Mon 22 Jun 2009, 4:59 am

googleboy3 wrote:thanks Littlelamb

i really appreciate your feelings

i want to say that i have the same feelings for you or i wouldn't come and reply

but when u say jesus died four our sins etc i found that illogical

why does anyone have to die for our sins when God, the All-Merciful, could as easily give us forgiveness if we ask for it? Why does He have to make someone suffer for our sins or for someone else's sins? Isn't that unjust of Him?

According to the Bible the way to redemption could be obtained without the need for sacrifice. The Bible says: :
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Clearly the soul that sins shall die. Clearly that no one shall bear the iniquity (sins) of others. So Jesus cannot bear the sins of others either. If one is righteous then it shall be upon him, and if one commits a sin then it shall be upon him, and not on Jesus. Finally, the way to repentance and forgiveness is by turning from all sins, doing what is right, and keeping the commandments

It is simple. Man cannot redeem himself. You stated that only GOD can clear us of sin. HE did this through HIS SON, JESUS, upon the CROSS of CALVARY. Without your accepting JESUS as LORD and SAVIOR, and ACCEPTING HIS FREE GIFT; you are still in sin, and will die with your sins. This death is eternal. There is nothing you can do, outside of TRUSTING in JESUS, that SAVES you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

JESUS is acknowledged as GOD'S SON:


Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


JESUS came to take away the sins of the world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Through JESUS, our sins are forgiven:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Are you without sin? Turn today to JESUS. HE is watching and waiting for you. I am praying for you.

I love you

Littlelamb
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Re: A Prophet Like Moses

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