Creation of the universe according to the Bible

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Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 22 Jun 2009, 5:16 am

The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book,
Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned -
It says…
Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day.
Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24
hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The
Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a
day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch.
Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it
could have been created in 6 very long periods.

Point No.2 - Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…
Light was created on the first day.’
enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’.
How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific.

Point No.3
Further, the, Bible says
Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How
can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon
the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a
night and day?


Point No..4,
Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’
Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sunIt is unscientific.

Point No. 5,
the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.

How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ?

Point No.6,
that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night.
The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’
And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses –
Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating,
that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction
with established scientific knowledge that we have.


you may say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually
refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day.
It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly
states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance
approach - no problem. I agree - Yet they will only be able to solve
the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day
‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet they cannot solve.


You may say that … ‘If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’

I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs -

If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining
4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only
Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.

I leave it to you , whether you want to say… ‘It is long
period’, and say that there are only 4 scientific errors - or say… ‘It
is a 24 hour day’, and say there is only 5 scientific errors in the
creation of the universe.

there are many which i can mention but for the time i will say first answer these 6

so can u answer that please
i am begging you

1-creation of the Universe in six 24 hours days
2-Light before it's source
3-day created before earth
4-earth created before sun
5-vegetation created before sun
6-Light of the moon is it's own light

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Littlelamb on Mon 22 Jun 2009, 9:18 am

GOD can DO ALL THINGS.

Isaiah 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.


Psalms 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names. 5 Great [is] our Lord, and of great power: his understanding [is] infinite.

Can scientist make the sun stand still? or the stars and planets, change their rotation?


http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/science-and-bible-f21/the-bible-and-nasa-t3080.htm

Can Scientist explain a Crown of Thorns Galaxy, in heaven?

http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/science-and-bible-f21/crown-of-thorns-galaxy-photographed-in-space-t2971.htm

Or a Giant hand, seen in space?

http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/science-and-bible-f21/need-to-see-giant-hand-reaches-across-space-t2937.htm

Or this:

Scientists hear mystery boom from space
Radio noise from distant cosmos is six times louder than expected

http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/science-and-bible-f21/scientist-are-baffled-signs-in-the-heavens-t2580.htm


Can your scientist do these things? I think not. They don't even know how many stars and galaxies there are, and have only just begun to understand the infinite wisdom, found in a single molecule. Yet, the LORD GOD, even knows the number of hairs, upon your head.

Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

I love you

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 22 Jun 2009, 5:42 pm

Bible is right and science is wrong ?
so you are telling me that this is right:
1-creation of the Universe in six 24 hours days
2-Light before it's source
3-day created before earth
4-earth created before sun
5-vegetation created before sun
6-Light of the moon is it's own light

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 4:00 am

I do not know which scientific fact you are referring to? First of all, Bible talks of 24 hours day. Why do we limit God? Is it difficult for Him to create everything in six days? Your Allah got confused, he does not even know how many it took him to create.

Order of creation
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: God rested.

Day 1: Creation of Sky, Earth and Light
The universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−35 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.

This theory, in which all the atheists, scientists and other people believe says, that the universe had mass, sky and light, and so does the Bible says, that the universe had sky, earth and light on the first day of creation.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...(Genesis 1:1-2)

Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky
A few minutes into the expansion, when the temperature was about a billion (one thousand million; 109; SI prefix giga) Kelvin and the density was about that of air, neutrons combined with protons to form the universe's deuterium and helium nuclei in a process called Big Bang necleosynthesis. Most protons remained uncombined as hydrogen nuclei. As the universe cooled, the rest mass energy density of matter came to gravitationally dominate that of the photon radiation. After about 380,000 years the electrons and nuclei combined into atoms (mostly hydrogen); hence the radiation decoupled from matter and continued through space
largely unimpeded. This relic radiation is known as the cosmic microwave background radiation.

It says that the universe now has water because now there is hydrogen and if you ask primary school student, that students would also tell you that it is simple science that hydrogen and oxygen makes water.

Day 3 & 4: Plants
Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. The
details of this process depend on the amount and type of matter in the universe. The three possible types of matter are known as cold dark matter, hot dark matter and baryonice matter. The best measurements available (from WMAP) show that the dominant form of matter in the universe is cold dark matter. The other two types of matter make up less than 20% of the matter in the universe.

The big bang theory says that stars, sun, moon etc came into existence after quite a while. So strange, now you should belive in Bible as it says same.

Rest of the days are same in Big Bang theory that plant life came first, then animal kingdom and then apes decided to evolve into humans. And then suddenly Apes thought that no more evolution. So what do you say now? Science proves the creation of Bible.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Common on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 4:47 am

GoogleBoy said:
Bible is right and science is wrong ?
so you are telling me that this is right:
1-creation of the Universe in six 24 hours days
2-Light before it's source
3-day created before earth
4-earth created before sun
5-vegetation created before sun
6-Light of the moon is it's own light

I am not answering all of those points but for #1 yes, for #2, it has been confirmed that there was light before the sun. And for #6, yes the moon used to shine. After the flood it went out of course because of the major catastrophic events that took place during that time period in which the sun lost its brightness, all nature became smaller, the water in the firmament came down which produced other changes and the moon went under catastrophy as well, causing its light to go out altogether. The turmoil the moon went through can be seen through the craters and rockiness of it.

God bless.

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 6:41 am

Sorry forget to comment on one thing you seem to be quite an admirer of science and you believe that God created everything in long periods. Then you must be believing evolution also. Then your ancestors are Apes. Great science!

Koran 10:5
It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and
the moon to be a light...

Koran says, moon has its own light. Excellent science!

Let me also point out to you the creation of heavens and earth in Koran. Which one was created first? As you will see in the verses below Allah at one time says that earth was created first and at another time he says that the Heaven was created first. Must be some kind of science!

Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...

Koran 79:27-30
What! Are ye the more difficult to create of
heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it...
and after that he extended (created) the earth
to a wide expanse.

Why Mountains Were Created
Koran clearly explains that mountains were set on the earth so that the earth does not shake when earthquakes take place. Amazing science!

Koran 21:31
And We have set on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them

Koran 16:15
And He has cast onto the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with you..

Koran 31:10
He has created the heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast onto the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with you..

Its very obvious that Mohammed was completely ignorant about the geological reasoning for existence of mountains. He saw that mountains are huge and heavy. So a good way to explain their existence is to say that mountains prevent earthquakes. Great science friend!

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 7:20 am

this is really amazing
everytime i say something in the bible i didn't get answer and you attack quran
i will comment on that but
let us first finish with what the bible say about creation
and remember if the bible is the word of God there shouldn't have mistakes and contradictions with science ok ?
let me tell you Daniel that you are a funny person
yo didn't reply to any point except number one which is Universe is created in six days 24 hours which is scientifically wrong
you just stated some facts ( it is simple science that hydrogen and oxygen makes water; temperature was about a billion (one thousand million; 109; SI prefix giga) Kelvin and the density was about that of air ;The big bang theory says that stars, sun, moon etc came into existence after quite a while etc...)
so you know big bang
Science says the beginning of our Universe occurred 13.7 billion years ago with the Big Bang,
and the bible says six days !!!!!

ok i understand that you approve that
2-Light before it's source
3-day created before earth
4-earth created before sun
5-vegetation created before sun
6-Light of the moon is it's own light

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 5:49 pm

Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:this is really amazing everytime i say something in the bible i didn't get answer and you attack quran
I have answered your question, it is you who do not have answer. No one is attacking Islam, it was you who came on this website and despite my request that we do not indulge in to Inter-faith dialogue, you kept on with you foolish questions. I banned you seven times, but you kept on registering again and again.

You are here to prove to us that Koran is word of God and Bible is not. So I am comparing, if you are let down by your own Koran and prophet, is it my fault? You insisted on it. Now to your lie, I answered your question in detail. I am writing it again:

Day 1: Creation of Sky, Earth and Light
The universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−35 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.

This theory, in which all the atheists, scientists and other people believe says, that the universe had mass, sky and light, and so does the Bible says, that the universe had sky, earth and light on the first day of creation.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...(Genesis 1:1-2)

Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky
A few minutes into the expansion, when the temperature was about a billion (one thousand million; 109; SI prefix giga) Kelvin and the density was about that of air, neutrons combined with protons to form the universe's deuterium and helium nuclei in a process called Big Bang necleosynthesis. Most protons remained uncombined as hydrogen nuclei. As the universe cooled, the rest mass energy density of matter came to gravitationally dominate that of the photon radiation. After about 380,000 years the electrons and nuclei combined into atoms (mostly hydrogen); hence the radiation decoupled from matter and continued through space
largely unimpeded. This relic radiation is known as the cosmic microwave background radiation.

It says that the universe now has water because now there is hydrogen and if you ask primary school student, that students would also tell you that it is simple science that hydrogen and oxygen makes water.

Day 3 & 4: Plants
Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. The
details of this process depend on the amount and type of matter in the universe. The three possible types of matter are known as cold dark matter, hot dark matter and baryonice matter. The best measurements available (from WMAP) show that the dominant form of matter in the universe is cold dark matter. The other two types of matter make up less than 20% of the matter in the universe.

The big bang theory says that stars, sun, moon etc came into existence after quite a while. So strange, now you should belive in Bible as it says same.
Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:yo didn't reply to any point except number one which is Universe is created in six days 24 hours which is scientifically wrong
I have posted my reply again. Do you think that 24 hours cycle is subject to moon and sun or is it subject to rotation of earth? Primary class science Textbook says that 24 hours cycle is dependent on the earth's rotation.

Big Bang Theory says the same thing, only the difference is that God talks of days and it talks of millions of years. Whatever time frame is, the concept is same and we are discussing Scientific concept and not the variations in Theories. Prove that it is scientifically incorrect. You were talking of order of creation, so I see the same order in Big Bang Theory. The only problem debating with muslims is that they keep on saying "Crow is white".

Now instead of deceiving others with your remarks, prove that Theory of Big Bang does not say this. Please do also comment on the following verses:

What was created first, earth or heaven?

Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...

Koran 79:27-30
What! Are ye the more difficult to create of
heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it...
and after that he extended (created) the earth
to a wide expanse.

Please do explain this verse
Koran 22:52-53
And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition.

Do also tell us why this verse was revealed on Mohammed and what was the situation.

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 10:39 pm

Daniel wrote :
The big bang theory says that stars, sun, moon etc came into existence after quite a while. So strange, now you should belive in Bible as it says same...
Now instead of deceiving others with your remarks, prove that Theory of Big Bang does not say this

Stop lying and deceiving others with your remarks
go ask your teacher in school
were do you see that science say
2-Light before it's source
3-day created before earth
4-earth created before sun
5-vegetation created before sun
6-Light of the moon is it's own light

were the theory of big bang say that earth come before sun ??!!!!!!!!!!!!
i want an answer Daniel if you don't know just say i don't know like Dr Campbell said in the video below
if anyone else has comment i am waiting before we move to comment on the issue that Daniel (who don't like interfaith-dialogue but he started and said to my friend derprinz why he is not a muslim and if you see he is the one who always start attacking Quran and then i reply) raised about verses in Quran

i am going to be absent for a while because i have some things to do
i hope when i return all points will be clarified by Daniel or any other member
and let me clarify something i am not here to hurt anybody's feelings or something like that and i am sorry if i have done anything wrong ,i really didn't mean to hurt anybody feelings
i only thought we will discuss and share some ideas

here a video i want to offer for you discussing The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science between the christian Dr Campbell and the muslim Dr Zakir
http://www.archive.org/download/The_Quran_and_the_Bible_in_the_Light_of_Science_truthwaytv/The_Quran_and_the_Bible_in_the_Light_of_Science_Medium_truthwaytv.wmv
taken from http://english.truthway.tv/zakirnaik/index.html

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Wed 24 Jun 2009, 12:37 am

Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:Stop lying and deceiving others with your remarks go ask your teacher in school
Am I lying and deceiving others or you? I gave you a complete answer and to that you ask me to watch Dr. Campbell's debate with Zakir Naik. I have already done that and it is worthless. Zakir Naik picks up those people who are not Biblical scholars.

You thought after watching few videos you would convert us. You never thought that anyone would show you the real face of the Koran. And looking at your answers I believe that you were ignorant of what is written in Koran.

Why haven't you explained the verses I quoted? You find un-scientific facts in the Bible and turn the other side when I showed you that Koran says that after creating earth Allah created heavens.

Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...



Let us look at the Timeline of the Big Bang


Image from NCSA


If you look at the timeline, it shows that first galaxies appeared long after Big Bang and it is estimated to be 1 Billion years after the Big Bang. Now in Genesis, we see that God created sun, moon and stars on the Fourth Day. I have already shown to you that everything came in to existence as Big Bang points out in the start and as Genesis record creation in Genesis 1:1.

Science says that universe came in to existence around 15 billion years ago and sun came in to existence around 4.5 billion years ago. Bible also says the same in Genesis 1:14. Point out any difference here. Now I ask do I need to ask science teacher or your Allah and you?

How much time it took Jesus to create birds in Koran - Millions of years or seconds
Koran 3:49
“I (Jesus) create for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with God’s permission.”


Please do explain the verse below. Are you ashamed of this verse?

Koran 22:52-53
And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition.


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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Thu 25 Jun 2009, 6:25 pm

What was created first, earth or heaven?


Daniel wrote:
What was created first, earth or heaven?
Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...
Koran 79:27-30
What! Are ye the more difficult to create of
heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it...
and after that he extended (created) the earth
to a wide expanse.

the earth could not possibly be the first thing created in the sequence because 79:27-30 states that in no uncertain terms beyond a shadow of a doubt that Allah created the heavens before the earth. Hence, these verses are not a sequential account of the 6 periods of creation and thus must be viewed both jointly and severally in relation to the whole Quranic account of creation. The word "then" in verses 2:29 and 41:11 is "Tumma"; it can mean "and also or moreover."
Many translators of the Quran incorrectly use the word "then." The sentence structure clearly breaks and the facts are separate accounts.
Yusuf Ali:
It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

One of the foremost reasons for the Qur'an's continued incorruptibility is that it has been preserved in its original language, unlike the Bible.
No one in the Muslim world has ever thought to supersede it with a translation

and remember
each time we are told that creation is completed in six
periods the word heaven always precedes the word earth


POSSIBLE DESCRIPTION OF EVENTS

PERIODS 1
THE BIG BANG CAME FIRST -The big bang occurred as a result of massive energy.Plasma eventually was formed.
21:30 "Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were
joined together, but we have opened them."-
Translation M.H. SHAKIR, YUSAF ALI

(THE HEAVEN AND EARTH WERE IN A FORM (PLASMA) AND DEFINITELY NOT IN THE FORM WE
PRESENTLY SEE THEM OTHERWISE HOW COULD THEY HAVE BEEN JOINED? HOWEVER ALLAH INSISTS ON
ADDRESSING THEM AS EARTH AND HEAVEN. THUS, IT FOLLOWS WHEN ALLAH SPEAKS OF EARTH AND
HEAVEN THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY TO BE CONSTRUED AS FULLY DEVELOPED ENTITIES AS WE KNOW
THEM, FOR THEY WERE IN AN "OPENED" STATE.)


PERIOD 2

THEN CAME A VAPOR/GAS THAT WAS DESTINED TO BE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH DURING THIS
"OPEN" STATE
-Plasma later cooled to gases (helium and hydrogen).

41:11 Moreover, he directed himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so he
said to it and to the earth Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come
willingly."
–Translation M.H. SHAKIR, YUSAF ALI

(THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH ALL BEING PART OF THE SAME GAS/VAPOR (OR "OPENED"
ENTITY) AS DESCRIBED ABOVE WERE DESTINED TO "COME WILLINGLY"
INTO EXISTENCE. MOREOVER, SINCE WE ARE TOLD IN 79:27 THAT THE CREATION OF THE
HEAVEN CLEARLY PREDATED THAT OF THE EARTH, THE EARTH MUST HAVE BEEN PART OF THIS PRIMORDIAL MATTER AND DEFINITELY NOT DEVELOPED. NO SKEPTIC CAN RATIONALLY DENY THIS, OTHERWISE THE SENTENCE WOULD NOT MAKE SENSE: SHALL WE SAY THAT WHEN ALLAH SAID, "DO YOU COME WILLINGLY" HE INTENDED TO RE-IMPLODE THE BIG BANG!)


PERIODS 3 AND 4
THE CREATION OF THE HEAVENS -Eventually, the gasses condensed into the stars.
41:12 "So he ordained them seven heavens in two periods,
and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars
and made it to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the knowing."

-Translation M.H. SHAKIR

67:3 "God is the one who created seven heavens one above another." -
TranslationM.H. SHAKIR

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE
51:47 "With power and skill did we construct the heaven: For it is we who
expand the vastness of Space." -
Translation YUSAF ALI, MAURICE BUCAILLE.


PERIODS 5 AND 6
EARTH IS COMPLETED AFTER THE HEAVENS -Stars eventually exploded and recondensed over numerous cycles, forming the heavy elements that later condensed into planets.
79:27-30 "Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it. He raised
high its height, then put it into a right good state. And he made dark its night and
brought out its light. And the earth, he expanded it after that."
-Translation
M.H. SHAKIR
41:9 "Say: What! Do you indeed disbelieve in him who created the earth in two
periods, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds." –

Translation M.H. SHAKIR

41:10 "He set on (the earth). Mountains standing firm, High above it, And
bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment
in due proportion, in four periods, in accordance with (the needs of) those who
seek (sustenance)."
-Translation YUSAF ALI

(THE FOUR PERIODS DESCRIBED IN THIS VERSE COULD BE SUB-PERIODS OF THE PRIMARY TWO PERIODS DESCRIBED IN 41:9)

A DESCRIPTION OF HOW GOD CREATED THE EARTH AND A SEPARATE DESCRIPTION OF HOW HE CREATED
THE HEAVEN. NO SEQUENCE OF EVENTS IS ESTABLISHED FROM THIS VERSE.

2:29 "He it is who created for you all that is in the earth (I.E 41:10); and
also
he directed himself to the heaven, so he made them complete seven heavens (I.E
41:12)
"
– Translation M.H. SHAKIR

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Thu 25 Jun 2009, 6:43 pm

Why Mountains Were Created

Daniel wrote :
Koran clearly explains that mountains were set on the earth so that the
earth does not shake when earthquakes take place. Amazing science!
Koran 21:31
And We have set on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them
Koran 16:15
And He has cast onto the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with you..
Koran 31:10
He
has created the heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast
onto the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with you..
Its
very obvious that Mohammed was completely ignorant about the geological
reasoning for existence of mountains. He saw that mountains are huge
and heavy. So a good way to explain their existence is to say that
mountains prevent earthquakes. Great science friend!

The Qur'an draws attention to a very important geological function of
mountains:
We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so
it would not move under them… (Qur'an, 21:31)
The verse states that mountains perform the function of preventing shocks
in the Earth. This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an
was revealed. It was, in fact, brought to light only recently, as a result
of the findings of modern geological research.
A book named 'Earth' is
considered as a basic
reference textbook on geology in many universities around the world.
One of the authors of
this book is Frank Press, who was the President of the Academy of
Sciences in the USA for
12 years and was the Scientific Advisor to former US President Jimmy
Carter. In
this book he illustrates the mountain in a wdge-shape and
the mountain itself as a small part of the whole, whose root is deeply
entrenched in the
ground.
{Earth, Press and Siever,
p.435. Also see Earth Science,
Tarbuck and Lutgens, p. 157} According to Dr. Press, the mountains play
an important role in
stabilizing the crust of the earth
.

Formerly, it was thought that mountains were merely
protrusions rising above the surface of the Earth. However, scientists
realised that this was not actually the case, and that those parts known
as the mountain root extended down as far as 10-15 times their own height.
With these features, mountains play a similar role to a nail or peg firmly
holding down a tent. For example, Mount Everest, the summit of which stands
approximately 9 km above the surface of the Earth, has a root deeper than
125 km

Mountains have roots deep under
the surface of the ground. (Press and Siever, Earth, 413.)
Schematic section. Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded
in the ground. (Andre Cailleux and J. Moody Stuart, Anatomy of the
Earth (McGraw-Hill Companies: 1968), 220.)

Another illustration shows how mountains are
peg-like in shape, due to their deep roots. (Edward J. Tarbuck
and Frederick K. Lutgens, Earth Science (USA: Macmillan USA: 1993),
158.)
Mountains emerge as a result of the movements and collisions of massive
plates forming the Earth's crust. When two plates collide, the stronger
one slides under the other, the one on the top bends and forms heights
and mountains. The layer beneath proceeds under the ground and makes a
deep extension downward. Consequently, as stated earlier, mountains have
a portion stretching downwards, as large as their visible parts on the
Earth.
In a scientific text, the structure of mountains is described as follows:

Where continents are thicker, as in mountain ranges,
the crust sinks deeper into the mantle.25
Professor Siaveda, a world-renowned underwater geologist, made the following
comment in reference to the way that mountains have root-like stalks attaching
them to the surface:

The fundamental difference between continental mountains
and the oceanic mountains lies in its material... But the common denominator
on both mountains are that they have roots to support the mountains.
In the case of continental mountains, light-low density material from
the mountain is extended down into the earth as a root. In the case
of oceanic mountains, there is also light material supporting the mountain
as a root... Therefore, the function of the roots are to support the
mountains according to the law of Archimedes.26
Furthermore, a book titled Earth, by Dr. Frank
Press, former president of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which
is still used as a text book in a great many universities, states that
mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the
Earth.27
In other verses, this role of the mountains is pointed out by a comparison
with "pegs":


Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains
its pegs? (Qur'an, 78:6-7)
In another verse it is revealed that Allah "made the mountains
firm
." (Qur'an, 79:32) The word "arsaha" in this verse means
"was made rooted, was fixed, was nailed to the earth." Similarly, mountains
extend to the surface layer joining lines on and below the surface, and
nail these together. By fixing the Earth's crust they prevent any sliding
over the magma layer or amongst the layers themselves. In short, mountains
can be compared to nails holding strips of wood together. The fixing effect
of mountains is known as isostasy in scientific literature. Isostasy is
the state of equilibrium between the upward force created by the mantle
layer and the downward force created by the Earth's crust. As mountains
lose mass due to erosion, soil loss or melting of glaciers, they can gain
mass from the formation of glaciers, volcanic explosions or soil formation.
Therefore, as mountains grow lighter they are pressed upwards by the raising
force implemented by the liquids. Alternatively, as they grow heavier
they are pressed into the mantle by the force of gravity. Equilibrium
between these two forces is established by isostasy. This balancing property
of mountains is described in these terms in a scientific source:

G.B Airy in 1855 suggested that the crust of the earth
could be likened to rafts of timber floating on water. Thick pieces
of timber float higher above the water surface than thin pieces and
similarly thick sections of the earth's crust will float on a liquid
or plastic substratum of greater density. Airy was suggesting that mountains
have a deep root of lower density rock which the plains lack. Four years
after Airy published his work, J.H Pratt offered an alternative hypothesis...
By this hypothesis rock columns below mountains must have a lower density,
because of their greater length, than shorter rock columns beneath plains.
Both Airy and Pratt's hypothesis imply that surface irregularities are
balanced by differences in density of rocks below the major features
(mountains and plains) of the crust. This state of BALANCE is described
as the concept of ISOSTASY.28
Today, we know that the rocky external layer of the Earth's surface is
riven by deep faults and split into plates swimming above the molten lava.
Since the Earth revolves very quickly around its own axis, were it not
for the fixing effect of the mountains, these plaques would shift. In
such an event, soil would not collect on the Earth's surface, water would
not accumulate in the soil, no plants could grow, and no roads or houses
could be built. In short, life on Earth would be impossible. Through the
mercy of Allah, however, mountains act like nails, and to a large extent,
prevent movement in the Earth's surface.

We subjected the mountains to glorify [Allah]
with him in the
evening and at sunrise.
(Qur’an, 38:18)

He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so
it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully
you would be guided.
(Qur’an, 16:15)
This vital role of mountains, which has been discovered by modern geological
and seismic research, was revealed in the Qur'an centuries ago as an example
of the supreme wisdom in Allah's creation.


… [He] cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth
so that it would not move under you… (Qur'an, 31:10)

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Thu 25 Jun 2009, 6:58 pm

Daniel wrote:
Koran 10:5
It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and
the moon to be a light...

Koran says, moon has its own light. Excellent science!

my friend derprinz already explained that
see http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/contradictions-in-the-bible-f27/scientific-errors-in-the-bible-t3075.htm#6677

"He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and
measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years,
and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He
detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge
"
(Noble Quran, 10:5)

We find in Tafsir (interpretation of) Ibn Kahir
He created the night with its darkness and the day with its light,
and they alternate without ceasing.

And He created the sun with its shining light, and the moon with
its reflected light.
and He allotted their stages and
gave them separate orbits in the heavens."

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=41&tid=46752

So why would Ibn Kathir come up with this statement, many
centuries before man discovered that the earth was spherical and
that the moon does indeed reflect the sun's light
? Well,
according to
1. Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 3, Pages
805, 808.

2. Al-Muheet dictionary [2], Page 454.
3. Al-Muajam Al-Waseet dictionary [3], Page 962.
4. Al-Mawrid dictionary Arabic-English section
[4], Page 1196.

5. Arabic-English dictionary the Hans Wehr
dictionary [6], Page 1008, 1009.


Transliteration:
[10:005] Huwa allathee jaAAala alshshamsa diyaan
waalqamara nooran waqaddarahu manazila litaAAlamoo
AAadada alssineena waalhisaba ma khalaqa Allahu thalika
illa bialhaqqi yufassilu al-ayati liqawmin yaAAlamoona

(noor): (bayyan)
reveal, reflect.
(istanaara
bihi):
(istamadda shu'aaa'uh) was supplied by its light.
(anaara al-makaan): (wada'aa feehi
al-noor) Put light into it, or reflected light off of
it
.
(nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan):
(akhrajat
nooraha) The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it
showed the light off of itself
. However, plants, as we
know, are not a source of light.
(anaara al-nabtu): (tha-hara wa
hasan) the plant was revealed well from light.


نور


(noor): be revealed, to be lighted,
to receive light
.

So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the sun is

(diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a


, then clearly the moon:

1-
Is reflecting to light, because it is
(was supplied
by light), as this is the meaning of
, which is derived
from the root word
noor.
2- Is reflecting to light,
because it is (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of
anara , as in anara al bayt.
3- Is reflecting to light,
because
it receives light from the sun
and
it is lighted and revealed by it.
So which light is the moon reflecting? It is reflecting
to the sun's
(diyaa'a). Again,
, and the moon is the noor نورا
to that diyaa'


ضياء of the sun!
it would be better if you explained what
the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night.
The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’
And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses –
Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating,
that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction
with established scientific knowledge that we have.


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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Thu 25 Jun 2009, 7:10 pm

Please do explain the verse below. Are you ashamed of this verse?

Koran 22:52-53
And
We did not send before you any apostle or prophet, but when he desired,
the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls
that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His
communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, So that He may make what
the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and
those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great
opposition.

i told you before let we see first how you understood it
http://christian-talk.forumotion.com/discussion-on-bible-f19/the-concept-of-trinity-t3122.htm#6892
now let me tell you that :
Prophets and messengers (the distinction is explained in n. 2503 to xix. 51) are but human. Their actions are righteous and their motives pure. But in judging things from a human point of view, the suggestion may come to their mind (from Satan) that it would be good to have power or wealth or influence for furthering Allah's cause, or that it may be good to conciliate some faction which may be irreconcilable. In fact, in Allah's Plan, it may be the opposite. Allah, in His mercy and inspiration, will cancel any false or vain suggestions of this kind, and confirm and strengthen His own Commands and make known His Will in His Signs or revelations. (Yusuf Ali Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 22:52)

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Fri 26 Jun 2009, 5:20 pm

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also...And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:16-18)
The two great lights. - The well-known ones, great in relation to the stars, as seen from the earth. God called sun and moon "great lights" because of its quality, as a light, it reflecting more light upon the earth than any besides the sun. The verse clearly says that the greater light (sun) would rule the day and the lesser light would rule the night. God calls it a "lesser light" as we can see that when the part of the earth is not facing sun, the light comes from moon. This reflected light is known as moon light.

Now coming to your question that Bible says that moon has light, verse 18 says that sun was created to divide light from darkness. We can only see moon when it is dark. Therefore no where Bible says that moon has its own light. This is your own interpretation
Look even to the moon, and it shines not; yea, the stars are not pure in His sight; (Job 25:5)
Very Interesting
Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:Transliteration:
[10:005] Huwa allathee jaAAala alshshamsa diyaan
waalqamara nooran waqaddarahu manazila litaAAlamoo
AAadada alssineena waalhisaba ma khalaqa Allahu thalika
illa bialhaqqi yufassilu al-ayati liqawmin yaAAlamoona

(noor): (bayyan)
reveal, reflect.
(istanaara
bihi):
(istamadda shu'aaa'uh) was supplied by its light.
(anaara al-makaan): (wada'aa feehi
al-noor) Put light into it, or reflected light off of
it.
(nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan):
(akhrajat
nooraha) The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it
showed the light off of itself. However, plants, as we
know, are not a source of light.
(anaara al-nabtu): (tha-hara wa
hasan) the plant was revealed well from light.
According to you and muslim scholars as I understand from your response. Noor (Nur) means reflected light. Now let me show how wrong you are. There are 99 names of Allah and one of his names is An-NUR (Koran 24:35)



Allahu nooru alssamawati waalardi mathalu noorihi kamishkatin feeha misbahun almisbahu fee zujajatin alzzujajatu kaannaha kawkabun durriyyun yooqadu min shajaratin mubarakatin zaytoonatin la sharqiyyatin wala gharbiyyatin yakadu zaytuha yudeeo walaw lam tamsashu narun noorun AAala noorin yahdee Allahu linoorihi man yashao wayadribu Allahu alamthala lilnnasi waAllahu bikulli shayin AAaleemun

Koran 24:35 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.


So if I use your logic that "Nur" means reflected light, or to receive light and so on as you have explained, then the question is If Allah's name is An-Nur"" then from whom is he receiving light? or whose reflected is he?

Are mountains there to prevent earth from shaking?
Koran- 21:31: And We have set on earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them.
Koran-16:15: And he has cast the earth firm mountains lest it shake with you…
Koran-31:10: He created the heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast onto the earth firm mountains lest it shake with you…

Do mountains prevent earthquakes? Geology proves to us that movement of tectonic plates, or earthquake itself causes mountains to be formed. Besides, we know very well that, every year several dozens of earthquakes happen on earth. Then what is the result of Allah’s promise? Can we believe that, Mountains are there to prevent earthquake?

Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...

You have described Big Bang Theory from Koran. The Big Bang Theory talks of the universe and not separating of heaven and earth. Therefore the whole explanation is irrelevant and the question remains the same. This verse clearly talks of creating earth first and then heavens. Even if I use "Moreover" as you suggested the context will not change. Let me use "Moreover".

It is He who hath created for you all things that are on earth; MOREOVER the he turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments...

The context does not change as you have tried to change. Suddenly the Arabic meaning changes to your view point. Amazing!

Koran 22:52-53
And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition.

I asked you why this verse was revealed on Mohammed and what was the situation. But you refrained from commenting on it and came up with Yusuf Ali's commentary
Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:Their actions are righteous and their motives pure. But in judging things from a human point of view, the suggestion may come to their mind (from Satan) that it would be good to have power or wealth or influence for furthering Allah's cause, or that it may be good to conciliate some faction which may be irreconcilable. In fact, in Allah's Plan, it may be the opposite. Allah, in His mercy and inspiration, will cancel any false or vain suggestions of this kind, and confirm and strengthen His own Commands and make known His Will in His Signs or revelations. (Yusuf Ali Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 22:52)
I am writing the story behind this revelation.

When Muhammad and his community came under severe persecution, eighty-three of his followers who had no protection emigrated from Mecca to Ethiopia, taking refuge in the ancient Christian country, Abyssinia. Under increasing boycotts and pressure, Muhammad went through a time of weakness and compromised with the Meccan pagans by acknowledging the existence of three pagan goddesses alongside Allah: Lat, Uzza, and Manat. The Arabian goddesses are mentioned in Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22.

When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses.

In Sura Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his mistake, alleging that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God. But later on Allah abrogated those Satanic Verses with new revelations and instructs his prophets with new verses. According to Islam, Allah permits such demonic inspiration to test weak believers and to cut off those with hardened hearts.

Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth): Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53. Yusuf 'Ali's translation
Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:my friend derprinz already explained that...
Shame on you, you are a liar and you are just covering it up. You are same and you tried to deceive everyone with "LoveJesus" ID and I banned you many times. Shame on you! This is what your religion tells you to do - To lie and deceive???

_________________



Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ. (Philemon 1:3)



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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 2:46 am

Daniel wrote:
According to you and muslim scholars as I understand from your
response. Noor (Nur) means reflected light. Now let me show how wrong
you are. There are 99 names of Allah and one of his names is An-NUR
(Koran 24:35)
Koran 24:35 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the
earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within
it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant
star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the
west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it:
Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah
doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.
So
if I use your logic that "Nur" means reflected light, or to receive
light and so on as you have explained, then the question is If Allah's
name is An-Nur"" then from whom is he receiving light? or whose
reflected is he?

If you read the Verse - it says that it is like a parable of a nitche - In the nitche there is a lamp. Lamp has a light of its own. That means, Allah has light of its own, as well as that light of its own, is also being reflected. The light of Allah Subhnawataala is again being reflected by Allah Subhanawataala himself, like a halogen lamp that you see here - It has a tube in between. The lamp you can refer to that, as a ‘Siraj’ or a ‘Wahaj’ or a ‘Dia.’ And the reflector as ‘Munir’ or ‘Nur’, borrowed light or ‘reflection of light.’ And further more, but natural this light - actually does not refer to the physical light you are talking about - It is a spiritual light of Allah Subhnawataala

Daniel wrote:
Do mountains prevent earthquakes? Geology proves to us that movement of
tectonic plates, or earthquake itself causes mountains to be formed.
Besides, we know very well that, every year several dozens of
earthquakes happen on earth. Then what is the result of Allah’s
promise? Can we believe that, Mountains are there to prevent earthquake?

Nowhere does the Qur’an say that mountains prevent earthquake. The Arabic word for ‘earthquake’ as Dr. William Campbell knows Arabic, is ‘zilzaal’ or ‘zalzala’- But the words used in these three Verses I quoted, it is ‘Tamida.’ ‘Tamida’ means ‘to shake’, ‘to ‘sway’, ‘to swing.’ And Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No. 10, as well as Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16 Verse No. 15…‘We have put on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it would shake with you. It is ‘tamide bikum’…‘Shake with you’, Indicating, if the mountains were not there, if you would have walked, if you would have moved, even the earth would have moved with you - If you would have swayed, even the earth would have swayed with you.
read what i told you before
A book named 'Earth' is considered as a basic
reference textbook on geology in many universities around the world.
One of the authors of this book is Frank Press, who was the President of the Academy of Sciences in the USA for 12 years and was the Scientific Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter. In this book he illustrates the mountain in a wdge-shape and the mountain itself as a small part of the whole, whose root is deeply entrenched in the ground. {Earth, Press and Siever, p.435. Also see Earth Science, Tarbuck and Lutgens, p. 157} According to Dr. Press, the mountains play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth
you can ask Dr.Press(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Press) if you have more question
what i am wondering about is that nobody here is telling me how can an illiterate man, 1400 years ago, without any scientific background and living in a backward civilisation know such things ??


Last edited by googleboy5 on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 3:15 am

Koran 2:29
It is He who hath created for you all things that
are on earth; THEN he turned to the heaven and
made them into seven firmaments...
You have described Big Bang Theory from Koran. The Big Bang Theory talks of
the universe and not separating of heaven and earth. Therefore the
whole explanation is irrelevant and the question remains the same. This
verse clearly talks of creating earth first and then heavens. Even if I
use "Moreover" as you suggested the context will not change. Let me use
"Moreover".
It is He who hath created for you all things that are on earth; MOREOVER the he turned to the heaven and made them into seven firmaments...
The context does not change as you have tried to change. Suddenly the Arabic meaning changes to your view point. Amazing!


Regarding the origin of the universe, the most dominant and accurate theory so far has been the big bang theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
It was proposed by Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître in 1927.
http://ask.yahoo.com/20001027.html
According to this theory the entire universe was a
compact ball of hot swirling gases. Every Galaxy, star, planet, comet
and planetary dust (EVERYTHING) was included in this single unit.
Later, this single unit was subjected to a massive and tremendous
explosion that was caused by the enormity of the existing forces of
magnanimous proportions within itself. This explosion is termed as the Big Bang by the scientists.
I am very sure that you knew all this in your high school itself. But what is so amazing is that this theory was proposed only in 1927 while the Quran had it already 1400 years ago.
Check this out: -
“Have not the unbelievers ever considered that the skies and the earth were once one mass, then We split them asunder?” noble Quran 21:30 (Malik Translation)
The miracle here is self evident my friend. Quran says that “skies and the earth were once one mass” meaning that they were a SINGLE UNIT before they were split asunder which is nothing but the BIG BANG
Also notice that the astronomy during the time when Quran was revealed
was very primitive. Forget the telescopes; people didn’t even know that
the Earth was rounded in shape! It was during such backward times that
Quran made this bold statement. People would have laughed at this verse
back then. But now we know that this is correct, 100%, as always is the
case with the Quran.

for the word moreover
moreover Adverb
: in addition to what has been said : besides
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moreover

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 3:24 am

I am writing the story behind this revelation....

Lets see if this could make any sense…

Surah 53 was revealed in the 5th year of Prophethood…

Ibn Sad says that before this, in the Rajab of the 5th year
of Prophethood, a small group of the Companions had emigrated to Abyssinia. Then, when in the Ramadan of the same year this incident took place the news spread that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had recited Surah An-Najm publicly in the assembly of the Quraish and the whole assembly, including the believers as well as the disbelievers, had fallen down in prostration with him. When the emigrants to Abyssinia heard this news they formed the impression that the disbelievers of Makkah had become Muslims. Thereupon, some of them returned to Makkah in the Shawwal of the 5th year of Prophethood, only to learn that the news was wrong and the conflict between Islam and disbelief was raging as furiously as before. Consequently, the second emigration to Abyssinia took place, in which many more people left Makkah.

Thus, it becomes almost certain that this Surah was revealed in the Ramadan of 5th year of Prophethood. (Maududi Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 53, Source)

The verse that came rebuking the Prophet was sent down years later…

The very first verse indicates that this Surah was revealed
on the occasion of Mi`raj (Ascension). According to the Traditions and books on
the life of the Holy Prophet, this event happened one year before Hijrah. Thus, this Surah is one of those, which were revealed in the last stage of Prophethood at Makkah. (Maududi Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 17, Source)

And the verse that supposedly abrogated the ‘satanic revelation’ came in 1 A.H, which is approximately 8 years after the incident…
The sudden change of the style from v. 25 shows that
probably vv. 25-78 were sent down in the month of Zul-Hijjah in the very first year
after Hijrah.
This is indicated by vv. 25-41 and confirmed by the
occasion of the revelation of vv. 39-40. (Maududi Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 22, Source)

Are you trying to say that Muslims believed the Satanic revelations were true revelations for eight years? That would mean that the Quraysh would have believed that the Muslims were pagan worshippers. So if the Quraysh did, then why did they keep on persecuting the Muslims for their beliefs,
which is the reason why the Hijra took place anyway?


Obviously, one should also continue reading the remaining of the Surah…

Surah 53:21-25
What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold,
such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your fathers, - for which God has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! - Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! Nay, shall man have (just) anything he hankers after? But it is to God that the End and the Beginning (of all things) belong.

It clearly condemns the deity of these idols, so why need a verse abrogating it?

Surah 22:52 is only a general statement…

Prophets and messengers (the distinction is explained in n.
2503 to xix. 51) are but human. Their actions are righteous and their motives pure. But in judging things from a human point of view, the suggestion may come to their mind (from Satan) that it would be good to have power or wealth or influence for furthering Allah's cause, or that it may be good to conciliate some faction which may be irreconcilable. In fact, in Allah's Plan, it may be the opposite. Allah, in His mercy and inspiration, will cancel any false or vain suggestions of this kind, and confirm and strengthen His own Commands and make known His Will in His Signs or revelations. (Yusuf Ali Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 22:52)

(Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before thee) O Muhammad (but when he) the Prophet (recited (the message)) or spoke (Satan proposed (opposition) about that which he recited thereof) such that he does not act upon it. (But Allah abolisheth) but Allah elucidates (that which Satan proposeth)
on the tongue of His Prophet such that he does not act upon it. (Then Allah establisheth) then He clarifies (His revelations) for His Prophet in order that he acts upon them. (Allah is Knower) of that which Satan proposes, (Wise) He decrees to abolish it; (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, Commentary on Surah 22:52, Source)

Secondly, ONLY FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT. Lets actually say that this whole incident is true and actually happened. This in no way disproves the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), it actually does
nothing but convince me even more that he truly was a Prophet from God!
If we want to accept the story :
Satan deceived the Prophet for those few seconds by whispering those verses into him and tricking him into saying it, however later on God protected his Prophet and rebuked Satan and exposed Satan’s
failure in his attempt to bring people into idol worship. This could only show that the author of the Quran truly is God and no one else!

Of course, I reject the story. However, if people want to be stubborn and keep shoving it down my throat then fine! It does nothing more than prove to me that the Quran is indeed a revelation of God.

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  googleboy5 on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 3:38 am

Now coming to your question that Bible says that moon has light, verse
18 says that sun was created to divide light from darkness. We can only
see moon when it is dark. Therefore no where Bible says that moon has
its own light. This is your own interpretation
i told you that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night.
The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’

wait, it gets better,
Isaiah 30:26
Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun,
and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of
seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach
of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Notice this verse from the Bible says that the light of the moon shall be as
the light of the sun; this indicates that the moon will have
its own light, which will be as great as the sun. As we all
know that cannot happen, since the moon does not even have
it is own light, rather it is reflected light from the sun.
Christians have been so troubled by this verse that
Christian commentaries went through deception saying the
moon's light here referred to the Church or the Gospel!

there is more:
Isa 13:10
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof
shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his
going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light
to shine.

Notice the verse says that moon shall not cause HER LIGHT to shine, meaning
the moon has its own light.
If one carefully reads the verse, one will notice this is a chain of objects
in space which will be giving up their light, notice it says
the stars will not give their light, then it says the sun,
then the moon. What this means is that each of these
objects, the stars, the sun, and the moon each have their
own light
there are many other verses like
this showing the author of the Bible believed the moon had
its own light:
Eze 32:7
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and
make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a
cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Mat 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the
sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the
heavens shall be shaken:

Mar 13:24

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 10:15 pm

It seems that you are too much impressed by Dr. Campbell. Is he some type of authority over Bible? Is he a Pastor, theologian, Biblical scholar? What is he by profession?

First why do we assume that if this incident happened? There are historical proofs.

The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, repeated them (the verses), and he went on reciting the whole of surah (53) and then fell in prostration, and the people (the Quraysh) fell in prostration with him. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)

Imam Bukhari too confirms that after Muhammad recited Surah 53 the Quraysh accepted Muhammad and prayed with him:

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet ... prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Sura 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (the Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari: volume 2, book 19, number 177, Khan)

Quraysh never believed in Mohammed and Allah then why did Quraysh who were after the life of Mohammed prostrated with him?

This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic Verses; they were words that Muhammad spoke from Satan and his own desire. The Islamic accounts then say that the angel Gabriel rebuked Muhammad for what he had said:

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 166)

Then Muhammad confessed:

I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)

I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. vi, p. 111)


Here, also, are the comments of Al-Jalalayn in relation to Q. 22:52-53:

And We did not send before you any messenger (rasul) - this is a prophet who has been commanded to deliver a Message - or prophet (nabi) - one who has not been commanded to deliver anything - but that when he recited [the scripture] Satan cast into his recitation, what is not from the Qur'an, but which those to whom he [the prophet] had been sent would find pleasing. The Prophet (s) had, during an assembly of the [men of] Quraysh, after reciting the [following verses from] surat al-Najm, Have you considered Lat and 'Uzza? And Manat, the third one? [53:19-20] added, as a result of Satan casting them onto his tongue without his [the Prophet's] being aware of it, [the following words]: 'those are the high-flying cranes (al-gharaniq al-'ula) and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for', and so they [the men of Quraysh] were thereby delighted. Gabriel, however, later informed him [the Prophet] of this that Satan had cast onto his tongue and he was grieved by it; but was [subsequently] comforted with this following verse that he might be reassured [of God's pleasure]: thereat God abrogates, nullifies, whatever Satan had cast, then God confirms His revelations. And God is Knower, of Satan's casting of that which has been mentioned, Wise, in His enabling him [Satan] to do such things, for He does whatever He wishes. (Tafsir Al-Jalalayn) Here is online source of the Tafsir (commentary) Online Source

Koran 6:115
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and Justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

10:64
There is no changing the Words of Allah.

Koran 18:27
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the scripture of Thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.

How can satan change words of Allah when he says no one can do that? It also contradicts your claim about Bible being corrupt, for it is written in Koran that no one can change the words of Allah. (Although I do not believe Allah to be a god, I am just using these verses for the sake of discussion)

Regrading rest of your explanation on Earthquakes and and moon being lamp (Nur) makes no sense. Really halogen lamp and all you have written makes no sense.

Concerning the word "siraaj", in Suras 71:15-16 and 26:61 it is simply "lamp" referring to the sun. In Sura 78:13 "siraajan wahhajan" means "a dazzling lamp", indicating the sun.

If you continue to insist that "noor" (used for the moon) means borrowed or reflected light, in comparison to the word (siraaj = lamp) used for the sun, consider the following verses.

In Sura 24:35 we read that "Allah is the light (noor) of the heavens and the earth." If "noor" means reflected light, what is the source of this light (siraaj) which Allah is only a reflection of?

Think about it. Why is Allah called "noor" and not "siraaj"? Who? What is the "siraaj"?

Well the Qur'an tells us who the "siraaj" is, but the answer will shock you. In Sura 33:45-46 we find:

O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness,
a Bearer of Glad Tidings and a Warner
and as one who invites to Allah's (Grace) by His leave
and as a lamp spreading light.


"And as a lamp spreading light" in Arabic is "wa siraajan muneeran".

Linguistically, this is the end of the discussion. Here "siraaj" and the adjective "muneer" are used together for the same shining object. It is ridiculous to try to maintain that "muneer" implies reflection rather than its own brilliance.

And spiritually, if you insist that the Arabic words "noor" and "muneer" imply "reflected light, then based on the use of these words in the Qur'an, Muhammad is like the sun, and Allah is like the moon.

See I do not need Dr. Campbell's help in understanding Koranic Arabic as you have suggested. I know it myself. To refresh your memory, I have already told you when you logged in as "derprinz", I have studied Koran for 14 years, learnt Arabic in school as it was mandatory and till my my under-graduate degree I took Islamiat as a subject.










Last edited by Waqar Daniel on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 10:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 10:32 pm

First of all, you do not need to remind me of the hebrew word "Lamp" as I have already commented on it. You make it easy for me by quoting appropriate Biblical verses. You quoted:

Isaiah 30:26
Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun,
and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of
seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach
of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.


Although you have quoted a prophecy here but I would like to use simple logic. The verse says that the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, an example is given and now let us see what be the light of the sun will be? The verse says it will be seven fold (times). So if the sun is shining seven times more than its original light then of course the moon will reflect more sun light and will shine more than its original light it reflects.

Isa 13:10
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof
shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his
going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light
to shine.


Certainly if the sun will not shine the moon will also not shine. What is so "Rocket science" here?

Eze 32:7
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and
make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a
cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.


Same as above, if the sun will not shine, how will moon give its light. Again no "Rocket science".

Mat 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the
sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the
heavens shall be shaken:


Same as above.

Mar 13:24
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,


I think you need to read the verses first. Do not just skim for moon light when you read. Read it thoroughly so that you may not make such mistakes. In the verse above you quoted, if the sun is darkened by God, then how will moon shine?

Conclusion

Please do listen to your Prophet for he gave you a warning.

Koran 34:50
Say: ‘If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss; if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. He is All-hearing, Ever-nigh.’

Point to Ponder!
Who will suffer loss if Muhammad was wrong? Listen to his warning. After all he could not even differentiate between the voice of satan and voice of Allah.


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SCIENCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BIBLE.

Post  crystalriver on Thu 05 Aug 2010, 10:48 am

YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO UNDERSTAND SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH A PHYSICAL MIND. IT CAN'T BE DONE. SCIENCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLE. WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT GOD DOES? GOD DOES WHAT HE WANTS TO, WHEN HE WANTS TO, AND HOW HE WANTS TO. HE DOES NOT ASK MAN'S PERMISSION. MEN WANT TO HAVE SOME CONTROL OR SAY IN EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS. THEY FEEL THREATENED AND WEAK WHEN THEY ARE NOT IN COMPLETE CONTROL. EVERY WORD IN THE BIBLE WILL COME TRUE. THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO STOP IT. EVERY ONE KNOWS THAT THE BIBLE IS TRUE, THEY JUST WON'T ADMIT IT. THE REAL REASON YOU ARE ARGUING ABOUT THE BIBLE IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. IT TAKES A SPIRITUAL MIND TO UNDERSTAND SPIRITUAL THINGS. IF GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT LIVING IN YOU, YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND HIS WORD. IF GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT WAS LIVING IN YOU, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY GOD. IF YOU NEVER UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT JESUS, I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS.

"IF YOU CONFESS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WITH YOUR MOUTH, AND BELIEVE THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU SHALL BE SAVED". IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS, I PROMISE YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER.

REVEREND WILLIAM BAKER

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Re: Creation of the universe according to the Bible

Post  Waqar Daniel on Thu 05 Aug 2010, 8:06 pm

Thank you Rev. William for your input and I agree with you.

God bless you

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THE DEVIL WROTE THE KORAN.

Post  crystalriver on Thu 05 Aug 2010, 10:00 pm

THE DEVIL WROTE THE KORAN FROM START TO FINISH. ANYTHING THAT IS ADDED TO THE BIBLE OR TAKEN AWAY FROM THE BIBLE IS OF THE DEVIL. ALL MUSLIMS ARE ACTIVE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS AND WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER. MUHAMMED WAS A DEVIL WORSHIPPER AND A LIAR . THE DEVIL WAS HIS FATHER AND HE IS BURNING IN HELL RIGHT NOW. THE KORAN IS A COMPLETE LIE. NOT ONE WORD IN IT IS TRUE. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS, THE DEVIL IS YOUR FATHER.

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