Crucifiction

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Crucifiction

Post  googleboy5 on Tue 30 Jun 2009, 7:06 pm

The Crucifixion and Resurrection were never prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament:

You would expect that major events such as the crucifixion and the
resurrection of Christ, that make up the entire case for
Christianity, to be at least prophesied in the Bible's Old
Testament clearly, without any ambiguity, and without any deliberate
mistranslations and lies.The following Biblical verses that further refute
the crucifixion and resurrection lies:

Being lifted and saved:

Luke 4:10-12

10 For the scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot
on a stone.
’”
12 Jesus responded, “The scriptures
also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of
the Temple,
6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the scriptures say, ‘He
will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands
so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.
’”
7 Jesus responded, “The scriptures
also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all
the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the scriptures say, ‘You must
worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”


Chapter Psalm 91 clearly and indisputably
confirms that Jesus never got crucified!
Let us now take a look at

Psalm 91
:
(Please pay specially attention to Psalm 91:11-12, 15)
Psalm 91
1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."
3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
...
8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.
..
10 then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;

12 they will lift you up in their hands,so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. (If Jesus died on the cross and got buried, then his feet would've struck the ground and the stones on it from bringing him down, throwing him on the floor and burying him).
13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent.
14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.
16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."There is no question that the emphasized parts above, especially in
Psalm 91:11-12, 15 and the others
, clearly and indisputably agree with the Noble Quran's and Isaiah 52:13 Verses
  • GOD Almighty will hear his cries (Psalm 91:15) and will save him (Psalm 91:3).

  • GOD Almighty will cover him with His Protection (Psalm 91:4).

  • Christ will then not have any fear in him (Psalm 91:5).

  • Christ will then observe with his own eyes the punishment of the
    crucified ones (Psalm 91:8).

  • No harm (this includes
    crucifixion!)
    or disaster will even come near Christ
    (Psalm
    91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion
    ).

  • GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13).
    Not even his foot will strike the ground
    from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

  • Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm
    91:15, Isaiah 52:13
    ). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.
  • Let us look at the following Noble Verse from the Noble Quran
    (The Muslims Holy scripture):

    "That they rejected Faith;That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power,
    Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must
    believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will
    be a witness Against them.
    (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"

    Now compare the Noble Verses to Isaiah 52:13 "...he will be raised and lifted up....". Notice that Isaiah 52:13 did not say "....he will be RESURRECTED and lifted up...." Not even once, did the Old Testament predict for the foretold Servant
    to be raised to GOD Almighty after death. There absolutely no mention of any
    sort of resurrection in the Bible's Old Testament what so ever.

    Psalm 116, 117 and 118:

    please read Psalm 116
    There few points to notice :
    1- In Psalm 116:3, we see the Messiah fearing the pain of the grave and death.
    2- As similarly mentioned in Psalm 91, where GOD Almighty specifically said that He will send down His Angels to lift and save the Messiah from any and all harm, we see again in Psalm 116:6 GOD Almighty answering the Prayers of the Messiah and Saving him from any and all harm.
    3- In Psalm 116:8, we see the Messiah confirming that GOD Almighty indeed saved him from the pain of the grave and death. It does not at all say or mean that Jesus did die and then was risen from the dead, because again,
    Psalm 116:6 says that GOD Almighty will save him, and in Psalm 116:4 we see that Christ or the Messiah have called upon GOD Almighty to save im.
    4-In Psalm 116:16-18, we see the Messiah thanking and praising GOD Almighty for freeing him from the "chains", which is referring
    to the chains, the nails and the cross that Jesus was never even was
    harmed with
    (see Psalm 91:3, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15)
    , and then him walking down preaching to people his thanksgivings to GOD Almighty and fulfilling his vows to Him, the Almighty.
    This point is further proven in the following verses in Psalm 91 and Psalm 118.
    please read Psalm 118
    5 In my anguish I cried to the LORD, and he answered by setting me free.
    6 The LORD is with me; I will not be afraid.
    What can man do to
    me?

    ...

    17
    I will not die but live, and will proclaim what the LORD has done.
    18 The LORD has chastened me severely,
    but he has not given me over to death.
    There few points to notice here:
    1- Like we've seen in Psalm 91 and 116 above, we see in
    Psalm 118:5-6 how GOD Almighty answered the Messiah and had Set him free before suffering the pain of torture and death. The Messiah also says that man has no power of him in verse Psalm 118:6.
    2- In Psalm 118:18, we see that while GOD Almighty will allow a great deal of fear to enter Jesus' heart , but in the end Jesus Christ will
    not die.

    Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about
    Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible!

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and
    petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could
    save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
    8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered



    Conclusion:

    The Bible is in clear contradiction with itself regarding Jesus Christ's
    alleged crucifixion and in everything else that it essentially talks about.
    It can not be trusted nor taken very seriously to base a serious faith on.
    At best, one would only be speculating when he tries to use the Bible to prove
    anything. Islam is the only Religion, which is by the way also the Only
    True and uncorrupt Divine Religion remaining today,
    that confirms the Truth in the Bible
    and removes the falsehood from it.

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    Re: Crucifiction

    Post  Waqar Daniel on Wed 01 Jul 2009, 8:55 am

    Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:he Crucifixion and Resurrection were never prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament:
    Here are references that will prove you to be a LIAR. Please be patient as I have not fully answered your article. I will do so by tomorrow. I hope in the mean time you will answer my reply.

    Betrayed by a friend
    Psalm 41 v 9; Matt 10 v 4.

    Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. (Psalm 41:9)

    Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him (Mathew 10:4)

    Sold for 30 pieces of silver
    Zech 11 v 12; Matt 26 v 15.

    And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. (Zech 11:12)

    And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. (Mathew 26:15)

    Did Not answer his accusers
    Isaiah 53 v 7; Matt 27 v 12.

    He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (Isaiah 53:7)

    And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. (Mathew 27:12)

    Wounded and beaten
    Isaiah 53 v 5; Matt 27 v 26.

    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (Isaiah 53:5)


    Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified. (Mathew 27:26)

    Hit and Spat at
    Isaiah 50 v 6; Matt 26 v 67.

    I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. (Isaiah 50:6)

    Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, (Mathew 26:67)

    Hands and Feet pierced
    Psalm 22 v 16; Luke 23 v 33.

    For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (Psalm 22:16)

    And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. (Luke 23:33)

    Thieves crucified with him
    Isaiah 53 v 12; Matt 27 v 38.

    Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isaiah 53:12)

    Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. (Mathew 27:38)

    He was pierced
    Zech 12 v 10; John 19 v 34.

    And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech 12:10)

    But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (John 19:34)

    Buried in a rich man's grave
    Isaiah 53 v 9; Matt 27 v 57-60.

    And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (Isaiah 53:9)

    When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. (Mathew 27:57-60)

    His Resurrection
    Psalm 16 v 10; Acts 2 v 31.

    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. (ACTS 2:31)

    Let us examine Koran and see what it says about Jesus' crucifixion:

    Audience
    Allah speaks to Jews and not to the Christians.

    Koran 4:154-159
    4.154. And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.

    4.155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-

    4.156 That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

    4.157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:

    4.158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

    4.159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death;[b] and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-


    If Jesus was never crucified the Koran would have never said it confirmed the Gospel and ordered so called Christians to follow its command:

    [b]Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein
    . If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. Koran 5:47

    So according Koran we are trying to guide you but in your disbelief you are among the rebels. Not my words your Allah's words.

    If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Koran 5:69)

    Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Koran 5:68)

    The Koran says it came to "CONFIRM" and not abroagte or even correct the previous scriptures as many Muslims claim

    Koran 2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

    Koran 2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.

    Koran 2.91 When it is said to them, “Believe in what God Hath sent down, “they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:” yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?”

    To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; Koran 5:48

    In truth We have sent the Quran to you, confirming all the previous heavenly books that were revealed before you and bearing witness to them. Koran 5:48

    It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Koran 3:3


    _________________


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    Re: Crucifiction

    Post  Waqar Daniel on Fri 03 Jul 2009, 6:44 pm

    Jesus used Psalm 91 and Jesus knew this psalm and He repeated words from it when Satan tried to tempt him. "Tempt" means "try to make someone do what they should not do". The story is in Matthew 4:11.

    The priest says that everyone will be safe with the Most High, who is the Almighty. The person that he says it to replies. He replies that the LORD is his castle. He trusts in God. A castle is a strong building where you are safe from your enemies. He does not mean that God is a castle. He means that God is as a castle. So, he trusts (or believes that he will be safe) in God.

    The priest answers that God will make him safe. He puts this into picture language:

    • a trap is what people catch birds in. The bird cannot see it. But God will not let anything catch his servant (verse 3a).
    • God will not let illness destroy his servant (verse 3b).
    • Verse 4 gives us a picture ... of God as a bird! A bird has wings (that it flies with) and feathers (on its wings). It makes young birds safe under these feathers and wings. God does the same for his servants. He makes them safe. Another word for "make safe" is "protect".
    • there are two shields in verse 4 also, big and small. Shields are what soldiers protect themselves with. God protects ... or makes safe ... his people. But the shield is only a picture. It is a picture of God’s loyalty. Loyalty means that you do not stop being a friend to someone. You do not stop giving them help whatever happens. Wings and feathers are pictures of big and small shields. Here is an example of Hebrew poetry. The *Jews wrote the psalms in Hebrew. Poetry is a special and beautiful way to use words. The *Jews said the same thing with two different sets of words!
    In verses 5 - 10, we read about dangers, arrows, illnesses, bad things and fighting. Arrows are sharp sticks that bows shoot. Today we have guns! Bible students have two ideas about all these things:

    • they are a plague. A plague is an illness that people catch from each other. If one person becomes ill, many other people that live near become ill also.
    • they are bad (or evil) spirits. An evil spirit is a servant of God’s enemy Satan. We cannot see them, but we can see what they do. They make people ill in their minds and their bodies.
    These verses tell us not to be afraid! If we trust in God (ask God for help and believe that he will give it) then he will protect us from illness and evil spirits. It is important to know that the psalm does not mean the illnesses that we often get, like colds. It means plagues. Even if we become ill through a plague, God will protect us after we die. We will live with him in heaven, his home. And God will always protect us from evil spirits. In verse 7, "by your side" may mean "by your left side". In verse 9, it says "the Most High is your home". This is picture language while we live on earth. It means we can go to God any time and anywhere. We can pray to him and he will hear and answer us. As it says in verse 15. When we die and get to heaven then God’s home will be our home. But we must love and obey God for this to happen.

    In verse 11, the angels are God’s servants. We cannot always see them, but they are always there to give us help. In verse 13, lions are animals that eat other animals. They even eat people! Cobras and serpents are snakes. When they bite you, they put poison into you. But "walk on" and "under your feet" mean that lions and snakes will not hurt us if we love and obey God. But this does not mean that we have to walk on snakes to see if the psalm is true. It means that if we walk on it without knowing that it is there, we will be safe.

    The last three verses are words of God. "What I will do for him" in verse 16 means "the things I do to save him". We call this "his salvation". Salvation means "saving" or "making safe". In the psalm, it means while we are alive on earth. Christians believe it means after we die also.

    Regarding Psalm 116 & Psalm 118, talks eternal death and nothing more. However, Psalm 116:8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, talks of the dangers when David was surrounded by the army of Saul. Neither Psalm 91, 116 or 118 says that Jesus would not die. They talk of eternal death. So you are wrong here.
    Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (Hebrews 5:7)
    The whole chapter of Hebrews 5 talks of Jesus as High Priest. And as High Priest offers gifts and sacrifices for sins (Hebrews 5:1), in the same way Jesus gave up His life for our sins. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. (Hebrews 5:3).

    Hebrews 5:7 specifically talks of to deliver Jesus from the state of dead and Jesus was restored back to life. The problem with you is that you do not know our faith. You have just watched some videos of Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik and thought you will come and over take this forum with your false preaching. You first need to know our faith to comment on it. You are just forcing your opinion:
    Derprinz/googleboy5 wrote:The Bible is in clear contradiction with itself regarding Jesus Christ's alleged crucifixion and in everything else that it essentially talks about. It can not be trusted nor taken very seriously to base a serious faith on.
    What logic you have presented by quoting Psalm 91, 116, 118 and so on, makes a man immortal being. You have to understand that when Psalmist talks of death, he talks of eternal death.

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    Re: Crucifiction

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