CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

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CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  sophie on Mon 17 Dec 2007, 1:51 pm

This is a Christian website and I have asked many Christians - WHY SHOULD I CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS when it is not in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible then it should not be in our lives. This webiste openly wishes Christmas to everyone, this is offensive and I have a question to the ownwer of this site. Why should we celebrate Christmas (pagan ritual) when it is not in the Bible? Do you have any answer and yes give reference from the Bible and don't tell me Christians celebrated it in 1 century or 2 century. I know that you will ban me like other Christian claiming websites because you have no answer.

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  Waqar Daniel on Mon 17 Dec 2007, 3:50 pm

Thank you for joining CHRISTIAN TALK. First of all, no one is the owner of this Discussion Forum, and yes I have answer to your question. Second, I never ban anyone, I only banned one person, who did not stop preaching against Christian Faith.

Why do you grumble if other Forums have banned you?. You should respect the Rules and faith of that board. The world is not going to run on your desires.

You want a reference from the Bible, let me give you that reference.

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born King of the Jews? We saw His satr in the east and have come to worship Him." (Mathew 2:2)

Who said no one celebrated the birth of Jesus? They not only celebrated but worshipped Jesus on His birth and we are stuck on this stupid question, whether we should celebrate Christmas or not.

What should we then celebrate, if we should not celebrate the birth of our LORD and Savior and even His resurrection? You answer the question.

I know only communists, aethiests, muslims and people belonging to other faiths do not celebrate the birth of Jesus and His resurrection because it clashes their faith. What are you - an atheist, communist or a muslim? You must know that only Christians are allowed to be a member of this board.

In communists and socialists states, if you celebrated Christmas or Easter they would send you to jail for five years. Even now, if you ask any Christian in Romania or and any other Russian state or even in Russia, they would tell you that in those countries, still to this date atheists oppose them from celebrating Christmas and Easter.

Why should I listen to you, when Bible says that people came to worship Jesus on His birth? Even uneducated shepherds rejoiced over the birth of Jesus (Luke 2:8-20) I not only worship Jesus but I also celebrate His birth, His death and His resurrection.

If you cannot celebrate Jesus' birthday then let others rejoice over the birth of Jesus as He is the most precious and awesome gift of Heavenly Father to us. Jesus saved our souls and brought us back into the presence of Heavenly Father.

I hope that I met your challenge and surely other forums did not want to waste their time because

Whoever corrects a mocker
invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked
man incurs abuse.
Do not rebuke a mocker or
he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and
he will love you (Proverbs 9:9)

God bless you

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Lee and Anastasia's view on Christmas

Post  Guest on Mon 17 Dec 2007, 4:38 pm

Hi, I disagree with Sophie on


non- Christians not celebrating
Christmas. It is the only time this lost world thinks about Jesus. However, My
wife and I are not telling anybody to stop celebrating Christmas, but this is
our own view on Christmas.


Click on link


http://www.yeshuastruth.com/pages/Should%20We%20Celebrate%20Christmas.html



I have always heard preachers say that it was pagan, but yet
they as I also celebrated Christmas. Until God spoke to my spirit through a
preacher, and this is what he said- God says in the Bible, do not worship me as
the pagans do. And this is why we do not celebrate Christmas. We believe Jesus
was born around October anyway. It was the time of harvest in the fields. When we give our gifts we say happy Hanukkah, and we always explain to them the why we do not celabrate Christmas, So because we do not want to be scruges, we also say Happy Jesus Birthday. We do not even give them on Hanukkah's day. I have yet to study on were did Hanukkah came from.
We do not celebrate Jesusí birth on December 25 because it is not the time of his
real birth, besides this fact, December 25 is the same date when all the pagan sun-gods
were born. I can assure you of one day Jesus was not born-December 25.


Lee & Anastasia Martone

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  Waqar Daniel on Mon 17 Dec 2007, 8:02 pm

[justify]The first problem is 25 December and the second problem is whose birthday are we discussing here. If we take Horus the Egyptian Sky god, his birthday was celebrated on 25 December until 1 century. Now the problem is that Egyptians never used a Gregorian calendar (solar calendar) rather they used Lunar calendar divided in 12 months with having 30 days equal month.

Now according to records, this Egyptain god's birthday was celebrated on 10 Mechir and the archealogists make it equal to 25 December. Very convenient? Why not 10 of Mechir be deciphered as 10 of December? I have no answer but surely those atheists archeaologists must have the answer.

Now the world shifted from Lunar Calendar to Solar Calendar because Lunar Calendar was never reliable. For example, in Lunar calendar, if December came in winters then after some years you will find December in summers. So it is not reliable but even then, everyone wants to date sun god's birthday celebrated under Lunar year to solar calendar. 10 Mechir means 10 of December and not 25 December - Simple Logic.

What has Hanukkah to do with Jesus' birth date? Hanukkah or Festival of Lights was celebrated to commemorate rededication of the second Temple in Jerusalem. According to Hebrew Calendar (Lunar) Hanukkah is celebrated for eight nights starting from 25 day of Kislev. It was no harvest time because no farmer will celebrate any feast during harvest. Yes they do celebrate it after Harvest and even before harvest. But Hanukkah had nothing to do with harvest.

The Jews used to light a candle every night yet we find shepherds going through their normal routine, Joseph and expecting mother Mary going for census and Jesus being born during that registration period. Why weren't the Jews in their Temple celebrating Hanukkah? Romans never interfered in the worship of Jews because they did not want a rebellion.

Magis met Jesus on His birthday and that is 2 to 3 years after Jesus' birth. Therfore it shows that Joseph and Mary were celebrating the birthday of Jesus and that is why Magis gave gifts to Jesus.

Moreover, Caesar Augustus must be the biggest recorded fool in the world who ordered census of the whole Roman Empire in the season of Harvest. (Luke 2:1) This means that Roman Empire would surely be suffering from famine as all the Roman world had gathered at their respective places to be recorded in the census. Do remember that that era was no computer age and everything was done with a scroll and ink.

Therefore, it was neither harvest season nor Hanukkah that we can refer to for Jesus' birth. Jews never recorded birth dates rather recorded only death dates. This is the reason that when we read Bible, we find all these genealogies, no record of birth dates but yet full account of death. There are only two whose birth is recorded, one is Moses and the other is Jesus.

It seems every god is born on 25 December yet none of these gods were born on 25 December, there is absolutely no record. Gregorian calendar came very late rather I should say many many thousand years later. Yet everyone seems to have a birth date on 25 December. Amazing? Even at the time of Jesus, Romans were using Julian calendar that had more days than 365 Gregorian calendar.

If an Egyptian god does not fit 25 December then fit a Greek god if he does not fit then fit a Roman god and the story goes on and on. Yet no one is clear which sun god are we talking of. And on the top no one realizes that the word December is Latin. Yet we find December in Egyptian language and in other languages. It seems to me, add anything without logic to your needs.

I think, if Christmas is pagan then calling Jesus Son of God is also pagan because we find many sons of different gods among different faiths. Why only we paste this theory on Christmas and Easter - why not on the whole faith?

Satan knew that Jesus will be born so he deceived people with many sons of gods, worshiped at various places. He tried to corrupt the faith by establishing many false faiths with a little twist here and there. Yet we follow satan and we do not follow God.

I do not find anything wrong in celebrating Christmas on 25 December yeah I do find it amazing if we celebrate it on Hanukkah because this makes no sense at all. The Bible has not recorded it, and the Old Testament, when it talks of festivals, it talks of leaving all the day to day work. Even those who were ceremonially unclean were asked to celebrate a month later.

It is height of disrespect to Jesus Christ, when we say why we celebrate Christmas. It is no pagan word that you all are so afraid of - For God's sake - it CHRISTmas. Is Christ a pagan word? What does mas means? FLESH. So why are you all afraid of saying Christmas - Really it is the most hated word and Jesus was right that people will hate us as they hated Him.

No one want to call Christmas that has two parts CHRIST and MAS. Amazing! Really amazing! Christians you all are AMAZING!!!


Last edited by Waqar Daniel on Wed 01 Dec 2010, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  sophie on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 1:40 pm

Thank you Lee for a very nice information.

In the New Testament 2 Peter 3:16 says That some of Paulís writings are very hard to understand. Those who are ignorant of the Torah twist his words and end up destroying both themselves and the people who listen to their twisted sermons. Paul the apostle constantly quoted from the Torah, the five books of Moses. The same scriptures the Bereions used to search to prove his teachings. But despite His repeated warnings the modern Christian Church has turned a deaf ear to Godís instructions and has adopted the forms philosophy and traditions of Babylonian sun god worship. But just as Jeremiah Prophesied, in the last days the Gentiles will cry out in repentance- Truly we have inherited

Nothing but lies from our forefathers, we have inherited the worship of pagan sun gods. We read in the book of Ruth that Elimelech, and his family left Bethlehem during a drought and Sojourned east of Israel in the land of Moab. The Moabites were worshipers of the pagan god of prosperity Chemosh. It was the same cast iron, pot bellied god that their kindred the Amainites worshiped by the name of Molech. They both wore the Frigeion cap. The official head wear of both Tammuz in Babylon and later Mithra in Rome. At the time of the winter solstice December 25 on the ancient calendar, they had a public child mass meaning sacrifice. The Priest stoked the Iron Image of the enthroned Chemosh with wood and burning pitch, turning the god into a cherry red furnace. The People made long list of there desires and recited them to the god of Prosperity, just before they put their infant Children into the red hot lap of the god with his Frigeion cap. As the Babies were incinerated in the December 25 Child mass the People were assured that their sacrifice would be rewarded in the coming year, On the same day. On the south of Israel the Egyptians worshiped their sun god Ra. An Egyptian Hieroglyph; depicts Ra castrating himself- just as a Greek legend tells of the god Addis performing the same surgery on himself. Worshipers of Ra would hang gold and silver balls on an upright palm tree as Jeremiah reports in 10:1-5, and placed their decorated gifts to the sun god under the tree with the gold and silver testicles of Ra. This vain custom was performed on Raís birthday, on December 25.

When Israel adopted this custom, they used the evergreen tree, which they cut out of the forest with an ax and erected it in their homes with the help of a hammer and nails so that it would not topple over. And dected it with gold and silver balls. God calls this festival an abomination. In the sixteen hundreds it was illegal to have a Christmas tree or even a Christmas service in America. The pilgrims knew that it was pure pagan sun god worship. Now donít be offended because I am telling you these things. Be offended because these abominations have gone unchanged by modern paganized Christianity. These occult practices have changed very little since being brought into America. A month before the birthday of Tamus we have our children make endless lists of the cheery red pot belly god of prosperity, and then we place our terrified children in the lap of this god who sits on his throne in the shopping mall wearing his Frigeion cap. On Christmas Eve, he will come down the fire place chimney and deliver gifts under the evergreen tree decorated with gold an silver balls. Our Children will kneel before the evergreen falic symbol as they receive the blessings from their god. And parents charge their credit cards to the limit to make certain that their children are not disappointed when their god makes good on his promise of Prosperity. Months before the event the world shifts into high gear to promise the most fulfilling experience of life, when our children open boxes filled with their greatest hopes and dreams. More stuff.

The reality is never as great as the carrot dangled before our nose. Our children are disappointed before the last package is opened, and we are in debt for the next nine months to try to pay for this sinking feeling of despair. That mornings events sets up a chain reaction that results in the highest incidents of suicide in the entire year.

Instead of putting our children into the fiery red hands of Chemosh on child mass day we abort millions of babies for the rest of the year and then celebrate our affluence by lavishing gifts upon our business partners we donít even like, just to show that the god of prosperity is still smiling at us approvingly. It is the same god that they served, the names of the gods just changed from culture to culture. And to all this I will add that Christians should not fallow in the pagan path. We! My wife and I stop celebrating Christmas three years ago. Just thought to shed light on the subject of the pagan Christmas. Besides Yeshua was born around September or October when the gathering of the last harvest, that is the reason that there was not room in the Inn for Mary to have her baby Yeshua. As I notice the scriptures tell us that the shepherds were attending the sheep. So if it happen in December there should not be any grass left in the fields. Gid knew that we are party animals so instead of celebrating Christimas on december 25, celebrate Hanukah and remember Yeshuas bithday.

Lee Martone

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 8:21 pm

I strongly believe that you did not read my reply otherwise you would have not posted this reply. I do not wish to waste my time but surely I will answer your reply. The first thing is that the article misquotes the 2 Peter 3:16 and I strongly believe that Peter is right in saying that Paul's letters are misunderstood as you misunderstood what Peter said in this verse. Let me correctly put this whole thing for you and for others:

I want you to remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and what the Lord and Savior commanded you through your apostles. First, you must understand this: In the last days people who follow their own desires will appear. These disrespectful people will ridicule God's promise by saying, "What's happened to his promise to return? Ever since our ancestors died, everything continues as it did from the beginning of the world." They are deliberately ignoring one fact: Because of God's word, heaven and earth existed a long time ago. The earth appeared out of water and was kept alive by water...Now add verse 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 1-16)

What Peter referred to and related to Paul was their teaching abut Jesus Christ's second coming and it specifically points out to this only.

Where is the word Torah in verse 16? Don't add words to the Bible or make your own translations. Paul preached from the whole Old Testament and not only from Torah. Jews called them Scriptures.

Children or First borns were never sacrificed to Molech on 25 of December. Molech's birthday was never celebrated like this. You need to study the history. I have written an article on Molech and you can read it by clicking here.

Molech was not an Egyptian god but a Canaanite idol called by the Phoenicians and related cultures in north Africa and the Levant. So here goes you first fact.

From the position of those who worshiped Molech, the sacrifice of oneís first born child, or any child, was the ultimate sacrifice. It was done only at times of extreme hardship, and not necessarily willingly. It is totally wrong that they sacrificed their children on 25 December to Molech. Are you so dumb brained that you cannot understand that Gregorian calendar was not present at that time. It was introduced in 4 century AD. They used a Lunar calendar and not a solar calendar. Sacrifice to Molech was never scheduled, it was done on for the need of the time. Maybe once a year, or 5 times a year or after 3 years, whatever the situation they were going through. Sacrifices were made to calm down their god and not to celebrate its birthday. Here goes another relevant fact of yours

The most humorous thing in the article you referred to is
As I notice the scriptures tell us that the shepherds were attending the sheep. So if it happen in December there should not be any grass left in the fields.

Now don't tell me that it was snowing in Israel at the time of Jesus? Israel lies in Middle East, where it does not snow. Middle East does have extreme summers and winters but I have yet to see this miracle that it snows in desert. I belong to a farming family and I can find grass in winters. Let me show you the verse

And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keep watch over their flocks at night...

The Bible says they were keeping a watch over their flocks. And believe me there is fodder for animals even in December. Keeping watch over the flock means to keep them safe from wandering off, from wild animals and to give them shelter for the night. In deserts, the shepherds live a life of a nomads. If their intention is to sell their flock, they move towards a market and if they need their flocks to graze they take them to open fields where they can find pasture and water. If night falls, they make them stay in a group and one member of the shepherds keeps a watch until his time is over and an other shepherd takes his place.

One other thing, I failed to understand is that you do not feed your flock in winters? This December, I will be celebrating Christmas in my village, and I love animals and surely I will be doing horse riding as I normally do, I will play with cows at my farm because I love playing with them and other animals. We are never short of fodder in winters. Don't mix up climate of Israel to that of north of USA or Canada or Europe because they are not deserts. If you do not believe me, switch on any News Channel and watch out for the News on Middle East where they would be talking of conflict between Palestine and Israel. Just look at the winters in that part of the world. You will never find a white Christmas in Middle East. Last time just before Christmas I was in Dubai and it was hot on 25 December in the morning and cold in the night.

One more suggestion I would make to you is that NASA, 25 December is the day when Jupiter made a huge movement changing its course two thousand years ago. I hope this scientific evidence will surely change your mind. Moreover, why this movement took place on 25 December - to celebrate birth of Heros or Jesus - The Bible tells us it was a star that moved and now NASA has named Jupiter as star and not planet. Reda the research made by NASA as they were also too keen to show to the world that 25 December is not the birth date of Jesus.

Therefore, the whole article you referred to is irrelevant and it surely misquotes the Bible and history just to mislead others. If I were the owner of that website, I would surely remove that article and say sorry to the visitors for misleading them. I have already discussed Happy Hanukkah in my previous reply. Read Bible and before reading Bible pay to God to send Holy Spirit on you so that you can understand the Bible and use it in your life and live a life that is pleasing to the heart of Heavenly Father.

God bless you


Last edited by Waqar Daniel on Wed 01 Dec 2010, 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  saved on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 11:26 pm

I love the season, someone tried to tell me I was wrong to celebrate it.

Guess what my tree is going up, I'll be singing, Joy to the world, and hopefully volunteer at a soup kitchen. I'm dreaming of a white Christmas and I will be Caroling, caroling through the snow as I listen to the Christmas bells.

Last year we went to people's houses, one lady was sick and that was probably her last Christmas. Its about bringing the Joy of salvation to others, Jesus birth was just the beginning.

Ole saint Nick is dead and gone, I dont bring santa in my celebration.
If we make a stand others will see that its not about the gifts or santa is about Jesus.

Non Christians celebrate the season, " non christian" meaning they dont know God personally. So we should not be surprise by how they celebrate it. They want to get into the fun, by making it their own, so its easy for them to put santa up instead of getting religious with a nativity scene.

Thats why we have " seasons greetings" & "merry Xmas" the Market wants to sell their goods to everyone....think about it an atheist wouldnt buy a merry Christmas card.

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  gil on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 11:27 pm

I am getting ready....well thinking about it.

Next Saturday 22nd Dec I will be putting on my white beard. Red cap, jacket and britches,,,,,Ho Ho Ho and I hope to be making dreams come true, in just a small way for some little orphan and rejected children.

[hr]

God loves YOU........no matter what!

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  WordofLife on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 11:30 pm

I celebrate Christmas with thankfullness in my heart, that is toward God giving us His only Son, who was born for our salvation. And getting a present is not important to me because this gift God gave is enough for me.

We gather as a family and since none of my in laws are saved, including my husband they go the santa way and I cannot do anything without creating a lot of conflict.

I am not interested in santa, bringing him into Christmas is unthinkable.
He doesn't belong there and will never do.

I am not against celebrating Christmas but I am completely against
santa claus.

Blessings!

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  WordofLife on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 11:32 pm

Santa, a Christmas tree or the easter bunny can NEVER, erase what our heavenly Father did. I dont feel insecure about my faith when I see santa at the mall, I dont tear down my friends Tree because santa is hang on a branch.


When I say we make a stand, I'm talking about bringing Jesus into the picture, you can have whatever you choose once you're not sending the wrong message. I have little snow men, under my tree.
They look like Frosty the snowman, its cute.
In my native country we sing Parang music, which are our own versions of Christmas carols, sang in English and Spanish.
Like every year I'll be a Parangdero.

Would any of those things effect my christian walk, no
Do I feel threathen by santa no, because the Bible said


"Philippians 2:10-11 10
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father


Give the day to the Lord, and rejoice with thanksgiving.

One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. Romans 14:5-6

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  FaithfulSon on Tue 18 Dec 2007, 11:33 pm

It is a good thing that you are asking advice from other Christians

I personally celebrate Christmas with the whole sha-bang... Christmas tree, lights, santa and presents. However, I know I celebrate it for a different reason from the world- I celebrate to recognize the birth of Jesus. Like someone else said, I'm grateful everyday for what God has done for me!

I don't think it's a sin to have a santa or a Christmas tree as long as you know what Christmas (and not xmas) is all about!!!

Lord I pray I get my nintendo ds for Christmas too! In the name of Jesus, amen!

LOL had to sneak that one in there!

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  AngelicSmile on Thu 20 Dec 2007, 6:57 am

Birth of Jesus close at handwe praise His Holy Namepromising to us salvationHe'll always be the sameonce we reach our goals in lifeand find the place to beHe will be there for us allthere for you and meI worship God for sending Himto save the entire earthall of us who live in itThank you Jesus for your Birth

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  LivingWaters on Wed 26 Dec 2007, 2:53 pm

When Jesus was born, only a few people realized He was more than a typical infant. The same is true today. Many people attend Christmas Eve services and observe holiday traditions but fail to consider three important questions: Was Jesus really God? Why did He come to earth? What does this have to do with me?

Genesis, the first book of the Bible, begins with these words: "In the beginning God . . ." What evidence is there that Jesus existed from the very start? First of all, the fourth gospel opens with a claim of His preexistence: "In the beginning was the Word [that is, Jesus] . . . and the Word was God" (John 1:1, 14). Jesus also testified to His own preexistence when He asked God to glorify Him "with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). A second proof would be His demonstrations of divine power. Jesus caused the blind to see, the lame to walk, and the dead to live again. His own words provide additional evidence. He said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30) and "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9).

The second and third questions can be answered at the same time. Jesus came to earth not to judge us, as some think, but to rescue us (John 12:47). He walked among us that we might know who God is. He died in our place so we could receive eternal life and become part of God's family.

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Re: CHRISTMAS - IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

Post  Guest on Thu 27 Dec 2007, 3:59 am

Living Waters, I love your observation and your eyes do
see. Thank you for this wonderful post. To me it is either this way
or the high way. Jesus is the Almighty Yahweh and whoever believes otherwise
means they still are living in the darkness. May Yahweh always reflect his face
on you Anastasia Martone

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