Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

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Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Guest on Mon 24 Dec 2007, 2:32 am

Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?



Matthew 24:34-35 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means will pass away till all these things are fulfilled.
35. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. I will vote on who I think has the best answer, and prove it with scripture. I have posted this one on Yahoo answers It is fun and it makes you study harder. Anna

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  thirsty on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 8:33 am

It is simple, it talks of second coming of Jesus Christ

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  lovemylord on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 8:40 am

I alos believe that Jesus was talking about His second coming and He was not talking about any particular race here.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  LivinginChrist on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 8:42 am

I think it was 70 AD and Jesus talked about the Jews.

Merry Christmas to all

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  lisa1880 on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 8:47 am

I am no scholar but once Pastor of our Church told us that Jesus talked about this as a parable and a prophecy and the prophecy came to pass at 70 AD when Jerusalem was burnt down. But Thirsty has made me think the other way now and by looking at the verses, I think Jesus talked about His second coming. So I would say it was Second Coming that Jesus talked about.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  WordofLife on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 8:58 am

Jesus talked about generation and I believe it was Jews of that time and it makes 70 AD

In Christ

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  4given on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 9:03 am

Difference between two generations is 35 years and the word generation in this verse is taken from the greek word gene and it means mankind and not the race. We must not confuse the old english translation as the old dictionary described generation as race but modern day dictionary defines it as 35 years gap. When Jesus talked about generation, He talked about end of this world and His second coming. If we read on, it become clear that Jesus talked abut His second coming.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  AngelicSmile on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 9:19 am

Second coming of Jesus Christ.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  lovingdove on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 9:27 am

The verse reads on:

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man...(Mathew 24:36-40)

Therefore, this prophecy talks about the second coming of Jesus Christ, when He will judge the world.

Merry Christmas.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  FaithfulSon on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 9:28 am

I would interpret generation as mankind and this passage talks about second coming of Jesus.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  ilovejesus on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 9:50 am

Surely the passage talks about the second coming of Jesus Christ and not 70 AD.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  jari on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 10:24 am

It is very easy. The passage talks about the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 25 Dec 2007, 7:44 pm

Interesting question and I hope that you will answer your question too.

God bless

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Guest on Wed 26 Dec 2007, 12:18 am

Hi Christians, I love you all and thank you for your replies. Most of you have it right when you say it is the generation when he comes back. Yes we are that generation because we have seen the fig tree bud, which represented Israel. Israel was not a nation before 1948. {Ezekiel 37:10-11 so I prophesied as he commanded me and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.} So Yahweh made them to live when He breed; on them and so came out the nation of Israel. Jesus said when all these things come to pass Matthew 24;32-33 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Israel is the fig tree that Jesus is talking about. At the end He said when you see all these things happen know that He is right at the door because this generation will not pass until all these things be fulfilled, what generation? The generation that sees Israel become: a nation. So if you where born in 1948 it is, your generation who will see all these things come to pass, what things! All the end time disasters that He; just got done talking about. I guess for us it will be 70 years for a generation. If somebody knows what a generation is for the Hebrews I would appreciate the information, for that will be the Generation. Did you know that Nathaniel was waiting under the fig tree because it was spoken about it in the book of Proverbs. Nathaniel was praise by Jesus for He said of him. Here is a true Israelite in whom there is nothing false. Why because he waited to be honor by his master under the fig tree. New Jerusalem with apocrypha; here it is Proverbs 27:18 whoever tends the fig tree eats its figs, Whoever looks after his master will be honored. Nice nugget is it not! Happy Bithday Jesus Anastasia Martone

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Wed 26 Dec 2007, 12:09 pm

Dear Anastasia

Thank for a lively thread you started. However, I think there is a little misunderstanding in interpreting Mathew 24:34. These are two questions that Jesus answered. When we read the whole chapter only then we can understand. I will not be writing the whole Mathew 24, I will only write the questions put to Jesus by His disciples and His answers to those questions.

The context
As Jesus left the temple courtyard and was walking away, his disciples came to him. They proudly pointed out to him the temple buildings.
Jesus said to them, "You see all these buildings, don't you? I can guarantee this truth: Not one of these stones will be left on top of another. Each one will be torn down." (Mathew 24:1-2)

Question #1
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will this happen? (Mathew 24:3)

Jesus' answer to the question of disciples
I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place. The earth and the heavens will disappear, but my words will never disappear. (Mathew 24:34)

This prophecy is for the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD when Titus ran over Jerusalem and burnt down the whole city and non stone remained in its position. Everything was destroyed. Generation cannot and must not be confused with race, the greek word genea or genos is translated in to generation. Jesus said THIS generation, it means the life span of the audience He was talking to.

Disciples' Question #2
What will be the sign that you are coming again, and when will the world come to an end?" (Mathew 24:3)

Jesus' Answer
"No one knows when that day or hour will come. Even the angels in heaven and the Son don't know. Only the Father knows.
"When the Son of Man comes again, it will be exactly like the days of Noah.
In the days before the flood, people were eating, drinking, and getting married until the day that Noah went into the ship.
They were not aware of what was happening until the flood came and swept all of them away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man comes again.
"At that time two men will be working in the field. One will be taken, and the other one will be left. (Mathew 24:36-40)

Now according to the whole chapter of Mathew 24, the disciples of Jesus asked two question and Jesus answered both of their questions. The first answer was the prophecy of destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the second answer was the time of second coming of Jesus Christ.

God bless you

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  thirsty on Thu 27 Dec 2007, 10:18 am

Daniel your explanation to the verse seems quite relevant and sound. When I read the passage I also found two question asked by disciples to Jesus and I found two answers of Jesus to those questions. Indeed it is how we interpret the verses. Thank you for explaining it.

God bless

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Guest on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 4:22 am

Okay Daniel, The
reason it cannot be that generation, that you have said is because he is
talking of the very end times. He first describes the times of the apostles,
but than he goes on to say that the Gospel will be peach throughout the whole
earth. How can it be-- when the gospel was just preached to the Jews, until
Paul gave it to the gentiles, and he came after Jesus? How can it be when only
now we are able to deliver the gospel to the whole world only by means of satellite?
Also yes He mentions that the temple
will not have a stone upon another that happen already. But the desolation
spoken of by Daniel did not come to pass, for that comes when the Antichrist
sets his image in the temple. I know you will say that-- that already happen in
the Roman times some did, but History always repeats itself, but it
will happen again. Israel
will build another temple, and as I speeck Israel
has all the materials already made for the new Temple. She even has all the stones cut out. Israel said it
could be up in three days hint? Jesus goes as far fordward as to his coming, so as
to tell us even at the door. He talks about the tribulation spoken of by
Daniel. He also talks about how he will gather us up in the air. That did not
happen yet we are still here. Years ago there were hardly any earthquakes
nothing comparing to in our time. Knowledge was almost at a standstill till the
computer age. He also said that the moon will turn red and the sun will
not give its light, did that happen No! So Jesus was explaining from his time
onto our time, in short he told the whole story from than till now in Mathew 24. The apostles asked specifically when he will return... If Jesus already has
return, than were is the proof of the thousand years of perfect peace. How come the
baby cannot play with the snakes, or the lamb lying dawn with the wolf? I could
go on and on for hours, for that is my favorite; study-- Prophecy of the end of
the age. I will talk some more on this fascinating subject that I devoted most
of my Christian years too. Ill leave you with this thought. We will be caught
up in the air, and we will be feasting for seven years before he returns to
judge the nations. When He comes we will be ridden on white horses right behind him, for we are
His army. May God Yahweh always be with you, and always keep you from harms way
is my prayer Anastasia.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Fri 28 Dec 2007, 5:46 pm

I think that you did not read my reply and just skimed through the reply. Let me write it again for you. Disciples asked two questions to Jesus. And do remember the context here because the dsiciples were showing the great buildings of the Temple.

Now the context of discussion here is the great buildings of the Temple or the Temple.
And Jesus replied, But Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There will not at all be left one stone on a stone which in no way will not be thrown down. (Mathew 24:2) LITV

Now this has nothing to do with the preaching of Gospel to all the ends of the world. It has to do with the this generation. After 70 AD, there is NO Jewish race. Although people trace themselves to David and other tribes but they do not have any proof. All the proof of this generation was burnt in 70 AD. People just poured in from all around the world and claimed that they were Jews, even people from Africa also claimed that.

Now preaching of the Gospel to all the ends of the earth is in this context And, What is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age? (Mathew 24:3) LITV

Now see the question - In one question, disciples asked What is the sign of Your coming and the second part is and the end of the age.

Jesus first explained the signs then the destruction of the Temple and in the end of the age.

The word generation that came from the Greek word geneav
means:

  1. fathered, birth, nativity
  2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
  3. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
  4. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

    1. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

  5. the whole multitude of men living at the same time
  6. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. (Mathew 1:17)

But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, (Mathew 11:16)

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (Mathew 12:39)

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Mathew 12:41)

The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. (Mathew 12:42)

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Mathew 12:45)

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. (Mathew 16:4)

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. (Mathew 17:17)

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Mathew 23:36)

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Mathew 24:34)

How can we change the meaning of the word geneav just for this verse whereas in the whole Mathew means generation or the audience present when Jesus was talking.

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The conclusion to the matter

Post  brother in christ on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 9:30 pm

anastasia@yeshuastruth.co wrote:Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?



Matthew 24:34 -35 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means will pass away till all these things are fulfilled.
35. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. I will vote on who I think has the best answer, and prove it with scripture. I have posted this one on Yahoo answers It is fun and it makes you study harder. Anna

Many people have posted replies zealously, and of such I admire greatly. Most all posts I've seen seem to convey the obvious conclusion about the Lord's return. This I admire since we are to be vigilently in watching & waiting. But, this I do not admire; many have not properly concluded, because they do not allow the Christ to teach them the whole counsel of God. Thus, many Christians, just as I once have, follow the teachings of men often influenced by seminary peddled doctrines, and completely miss what must be known to fully teach and example. I do not condemn you, but I exhort you to receive and seek the whole counsel of God, for we will all be held accountable by the whole judgment of God. I ask that you carefully read Acts 20:25-35, 1 Corinthians 9:12-18, Ephesians 4:1-16 concerning this matter.

Likewise, I wish to respond to the question of Matthew 24:29-44: Yes, Christ will return...but the 'Generation' spoken of is not a race or even the 70 AD Jerusalem. The GENERATION is any and all people who allow themselves to be over taken by their condition. That CONDITION can either be Good or Bad, but cannot be both with God, for He is holy. In other words, humanity as a whole is the GENERATION that has endured much in the process of time, and as Romans 8:19-23 stipulates; humanity waits for the Sons of God to be revealed. Humanity of our current day and time has and is about to endure it's ultimate challenge for survival. Through out our existence God has been seeking to gain each of us to Himself, but finding those willing to be PURE & MATURE in faith has been the big challenge.

Faith is not religion, but must be pure. Faith is believing - trusting - obeying God with the WHOLE heart. When we are PURE in faith, we can be trusted to do all things good and right. When we are not pure, we allow things that ought not be done, many times things that are done in the name of God. This should not be. Likewise, we are are exhorted by our Lord, according to Matthew 5:48 to be 'PERFECT,' as our Father in heaven. This Perfect means MATURE, not flawless. Flawlessness comes later, when we are complete in our glorified state in Christ, but for now we are to be MATURE. This maturity is spiritual, in which we conduct ourselves according to the leading of the Father and Son, through the Holy Spirit. Every generation of humanity has struggled with sin, yet the greatest struggle and most vulnerable to demonic principality and spiritual stronghold has been the believer. Having escaped through faith, a human taking on the belief that God is to be exalted and worshiped becomes a target is so many ways. One primary way is through self-righteousness and religion. Mankind is not created for forms of godliness and this is why forms cannot save the soul. We are likewise not created for religion or self-righteous expression, but rather we are created for fellowship with God and mankind. This fellowship is to be established within the most personal private place --the soul, so as to give us the intimate union and function needed to then convey outwardly the secret things developed within our closet.

As you may wonder; what does this have to do with the topic.

Here is the conclusion and purpose of all I am saying: 1. Christ will return for a church that is without spot wrinkle and blemish. The current day church is not this way. We are mixed with sect and sin and all sorts of traditions and forms and violations that make us far from holy as a whole. Yes, there are those who are faithful and pure, but God is not willing that any perish, and lingers longsufferingly to rescue as many as are willing. Just as in the days of NOAH say's Matthew 24:37-44, meaning that in Noah's day he and his family were saved, because they were prepared. But, the greater desire of God was that there had been ENOUGH saved to curtail the judgment by water altogether. There was not. Judgment begins with the House of God, therefore the tribulation of Matthew 24:15-28 will not occur unless the AntiChrist is ALLOWED to enter in. This Tribulation Judgment is the culmination of sins committed or ALLOWED by humanity, especially the Body of Christ. Remember what Christ said according to Matthew 18: "whatsoever you allow on Earth, will be allowed in heaven..." or in other words - 'Heaven will ALLOW it too.' This is why 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 reveals the fact that the 'Falling Away' is what will ALLOW the Antichrist to enter in. If Salt & Light does not lose it's taste and shine, then the Antichrist will not enter in or have his complete way, because Salt is a preservative and light shows the way. If Salt and Light loses it benefit, shrouded by religious activity and self-righteous disregard, then the Lord and Father will allow the Antichrist to enter in, taking advantage of the effect that the Tribulation Judgment will bring upon Earth. Revelation chapter 5 - 12 tell us of the affect Tribulation Judgment will have upon the Earth. This EFFECT will take place because as stated in Revelation 2 & 3 there is NOT ENOUGH PURE CHURCH to curtail the Tribulation.

The GENERATION of now, the humanity of today has been given the complete truth of the Gospel for it's salvation, and can change this senario. This Gospel has unfortunately been manipulated by men, suppressed in traditions, forms, denomination doctrines, and otherwise impied to be the property of Christianity. It is not the property of any. The GOSPEL is the testimony of those who believe and obey GOD. Christianity is not to be a religion, but simply a following of our Lord and Savior unto God. We are called to be disciples, meaning PUPILS or LEARNERS, therefore ---Learn what you must do for God and mankind directly from your Master Teacher,as led by the Anointing - 1 John 2. Do not place your confidence in mens traditions and forms, mens peddled teachings sold for money, the Gospel truth sold for money, men who must be paid a salary to minister the truth, church-house systems and burdens of expense.

When you fellowship, do so as led by the Holy Spirit in the simplicity of Acts 2:40-47, have nothing to do with works of darkness, flee youthful lusts, and the appearance of evil.

Finally, Matthew 24:28, 30, 31 coincides with Revelation 19:11-21. Also, yes, Matthew 24:34 does state: "this generation WILL BY NO MEANS pass away till all things take place." What are the 'THINGS that MUST take place? The ALL THINGS is dependent upon whose side you are on. Does God want humanity to suffer Tribulation? NO. Is God willing to bring Tribulation upon the rest of humanity, because of the neglect of the church? No. If you are on the side of God COMPLETELY,then the things that will take place are that you will seek Him with your whole heart, find Him, examine yourself as to whether you are complete and pure in faith or not, and act accordingly. YOU will hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church. He say's that He will hear from heaven if we repent, and He will restore the land. This is the thing that will occur when there are enough of the church banded together in unity of Ephesians 4:1-16.

But, if you are on the other side, if you are wavering in faith, straddling the fence, willing to cast aside your confidence of God instead for the conformity of the world, then the things that must take place are judgment and wrath, which will come to ALL sinners, especially to those who SUPPRESS the truth in unrighteousness, as revealed in Romans 1.

Peace

Sincerely;
brother in Christ; an apostle of our Lord

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 10:29 pm

Thank you for your detailed reply but I do not agree with your definition of this generation as mentioned in Mathew 24:34. Jesus never talked of confusion and He talked with simplicity. We can add many words and interpretations the way we want Mathew 24:34 to speak. The truth remians the same. Jesus chose the words He spoke, He never spoke open-ended or vague statements. He explained each and everything, so there is no guess work when we talk of words spoken by Jesus Christ.

However, to your concern about the Church, I would say, every man has to bear his/her own cross. Among the disciples of Jesus, one named Judas Iscariot rebelled against Jesus and Judas did receive power and authority to heal and drive out demons from Jesus. So there will be many Judas and Eve, surely those who will prevail, will find Jesus in the end.

God bless you

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  lisa1880 on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 10:46 pm

Dear Brother in Christ

I think Anastasia asked a simple question and we all responded to it with simple answers. We were not supposed to drift away from the topic and write a commentary on it. However I liked you post and it was quite informative. Thank you for your reply.

God bless

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Guest on Sat 29 Dec 2007, 11:34 pm

Brother in Christ, I have
one question for you, who made you an apostle? Yes the Bible teaches that to
some were given the gift of Apostles, and I might be wrong but Apostles to my
understanding, were people picked out by Jesus. One Apostle only was replace
for Judas, and that one was picked out by the apostles. But the true twelve Apostle--
was Paul for he saw Jesus and had a revelation from God to go to the gentiles. All
have seen or been with Jesus and also they had first hand Holy Ghost revelation.
So again who made you an Apostle? At first when I read your other letter I was
going to ask you this. To me it sounded funny, it is like calling the Pope Holy
Father, So: what say you? Where is your proof? God be with you. Anastasia Martone

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This Generation

Post  brother in christ on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 1:25 am

Waqar Daniel wrote:Thank you for your detailed reply but I do not agree with your definition of this generation as mentioned in Mathew 24:34. Jesus never talked of confusion and He talked with simplicity. We can add many words and interpretations the way we want Mathew 24:34 to speak. The truth remians the same. Jesus chose the words He spoke, He never spoke open-ended or vague statements. He explained each and everything, so there is no guess work when we talk of words spoken by Jesus Christ.

However, to your concern about the Church, I would say, every man has to bear his/her own cross. Among the disciples of Jesus, one named Judas Iscariot rebelled against Jesus and Judas did receive power and authority to heal and drive out demons from Jesus. So there will be many Judas and Eve, surely those who will prevail, will find Jesus in the end.

God bless you

Yes Waqar, a detailed reply is sometimes necessary when details are crucial. the unfortunate thing about THIS generation is that many believers tend to not like the details. Our God is detail oriented, and thus He takes nothing for granted. Yet many of us claiming to believe Him take many things for granted, opting rather for simple answers, trite comments and little tibits that sometimes do not deal with the whole counsel of God. Many of us whole-heartedly thrust ourselves into the complexity of man's traditions and forms without question or examination, yet when detailed discussion is needed, we become undone, we run or simply ignore the facts. The issue is simple; if we who are called out of darkness, do not lead the way correctly, others will suffer.

Peace.

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Apostleship

Post  brother in christ on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 1:29 am

anastasia@yeshuastruth.co wrote:Brother in Christ, I have
one question for you, who made you an apostle? Yes the Bible teaches that to
some were given the gift of Apostles, and I might be wrong but Apostles to my
understanding, were people picked out by Jesus. One Apostle only was replace
for Judas, and that one was picked out by the apostles. But the true twelve Apostle--
was Paul for he saw Jesus and had a revelation from God to go to the gentiles. All
have seen or been with Jesus and also they had first hand Holy Ghost revelation.
So again who made you an Apostle? At first when I read your other letter I was
going to ask you this. To me it sounded funny, it is like calling the Pope Holy
Father, So: what say you? Where is your proof? God be with you. Anastasia Martone



Yes, Apostleship is a matter of receiving the gift from Christ. It is unfortunate that many assume Christ stopped giving the gift long ago. This is primarily why we have so much confusion in the Body; everyone doing their own will. If you question my appointment, test by the Holy Spirit. The Lord and Father will clearly tell you whether I am a false apostle or not.

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Commentary

Post  brother in christ on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 1:32 am

lisa1880 wrote:Dear Brother in Christ

I think Anastasia asked a simple question and we all responded to it with simple answers. We were not supposed to drift away from the topic and write a commentary on it. However I liked you post and it was quite informative. Thank you for your reply.

God bless

Hello sister Lisa, I think you would agree that all things have their place and time. While you may not have agreed with my writing's length, it is for certain that the message is clear; either we the Body get it together, or we all gonna suffer together. Since you claim to LIKE my post, what did you like about it, what is your opinion of it's content?

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 2:58 am

Dear Brother in Christ

Thank you for your kind reply. Let me explain one thing very humbly to you. We all, are one family, who has one teacher, on shepherd, one leader, one King, one LORD and one Savior, Jesus Christ. We sometimes agree and some times we disagree but we do not get angry. Many disagree to what I say and I disagree to many, yet we are, and, will remain one family in Jesus Christ. We discuss knowledge of the Bible as per our understanding given to us by Heavenly Father. We all learn from each other. We do not get in to the competition of "who is greater".

God bless you

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Guest on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 7:53 am

Hi Brother in Christ I do believed in all the gifs! But
the gift of Apostleship was given to only the thirteen, Luke 6:13 {And when it
was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom
also he named apostles;}Acts 2: 43. {God was using the apostles to do many
powerful and amazing things; every person felt great respect for God.}
and I mite be wrong, and if I am wrong than correct
me on this matter,if there was more than the thirteen shown in the Bible.

Brother in Christ In this forum we expose
all that is not truth. We must not be contrary to the word of God, and
as a sister I rebuke you publickly for calling yourself an Apostle there were only twelve, and until you can prove to
me that their were more than twelve, besides the one they voted on in the book of acts. You
should not called yourself an Apostle. These men are specially selected by Jesus.
The
reason why I am rebuking you on this subject is because we should
defend strongly what we know to be true, and to me if you can prove it
find it if not, Please
do not called yourself an apostle. I scroll through all the scriptures on
Apostles and unless I have miss it. You are not an apostle, Solomon said rebuke
a wise man and he will love you, rebuke a fool and he will hate you. Remember a
little leven levens the whole lump. May the Lord lead you into his wisdom.
You also have stated
in your other letter these words, PUPILS or LEARNERS, therefore ---Learn what
you must do for God and mankind directly from your Master Teacher, as led by
the Anointing - 1 John 2. Do not place your confidence in mens traditions and
forms, mens peddled teachings sold for money, the Gospel truth sold for money,
men who must be paid a salary to minister the truth, church-house systems and
burdens of expens.]
You have stated that Pastors should not get money for
teaching their congregation this is from the bible
1 Timothy 5:15-17 [ For I am afraid that some of them have
already turned away from the church and been led astray by Satan. Let me remind you again that a widow's
relatives must take care of her, and not leave this to the church to do. Then
the church can spend its money for the care of widows who are all alone and
have nowhere else to turn.


Pastors who do their work well should be paid
well and should be highly appreciated, especially those who work hard at both
preaching and teaching.
} I do not think there is anything wrong with tides as long as it comes from your heart. Jesus told the Rabbis that they should tide but not neglect the fatherless and the poor widows. He who is stingy should not tide. God has not delt with him yet. To him that it is sin and not of faith than it is sin. So when you give give cheerful for God loves a cheerful giver. But a pastor should not have to go out to work. He has enough with his Church us.

Now here is my interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
Falling away from the faith, this means that they no longer
believe in sound doctrine.
Since the church will be gone, there will be no more sound
doctrine?
And that man of sin will be revealed,
the son of perdition;
who opposed and exalted himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sited in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And
now ye know what withhold
The Holy Spirit is
holding him back from appearing after the Holy Spirit is remove from the earth
than that man will be reveal who is Antichrist.
That
he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the
way.
This is plain and clear to me that the
power of the Holy Spirit is holding him back from making his appearing. Because
he will be identified by us right away. And this Antichrist comes in by peace
and he will make himself to be a peace maker. He will make a peace treaty with Israel for
seven years and after that all hell will break loose.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of
his coming:
This is my interpretation of the matter. Anastasia


Thank you Daniel for teaching me how to use this forum God bless you. Ana

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 8:30 am

Being an Apostle is NO gift. Gifts of New Testament are:

  1. Salvation
  2. Holy Spirit
  3. Peace and joy of Jesus Christ

If he does not like it, then it is not our porblem, and I do not want to read more on this subject. People take my humility as my weakness and ignorance.

God bless you all

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  AngelicSmile on Tue 01 Jan 2008, 7:23 pm

I agree with you Daniel that we must reply to the posts with patience and love. No one can condemn us and this is like making yourself equal to God. I hope that people use patience while other people disagee and use love to answer the replies as we are not answerable to any human being.

In Christ

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  brother in christ on Thu 03 Jan 2008, 1:23 am

Waqar Daniel wrote:Dear Brother in Christ

Thank you for your kind reply. Let me explain one thing very humbly to you. We all, are one family, who has one teacher, on shepherd, one leader, one King, one LORD and one Savior, Jesus Christ. We sometimes agree and some times we disagree but we do not get angry. Many disagree to what I say and I disagree to many, yet we are, and, will remain one family in Jesus Christ. We discuss knowledge of the Bible as per our understanding given to us by Heavenly Father. We all learn from each other. We do not get in to the competition of "who is greater".

God bless you

Yes Waqar, I agree and will uphold peace and love as well. I am not angry, but I am determined to not be misunderstood, because of the crucial matter laid before me. Time is of the essence.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  brother in christ on Thu 03 Jan 2008, 2:01 am

anastasia@yeshuastruth.co wrote:Hi Brother in Christ I do believed in all the gifs! But
the gift of Apostleship was given to only the thirteen, Luke 6:13 {And when it
was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom
also he named apostles;}Acts 2: 43. {God was using the apostles to do many
powerful and amazing things; every person felt great respect for God.}
and I mite be wrong, and if I am wrong than correct
me on this matter,if there was more than the thirteen shown in the Bible.

Brother in Christ In this forum we expose
all that is not truth. We must not be contrary to the word of God, and
as a sister I rebuke you publickly for calling yourself an Apostle there were only twelve, and until you can prove to
me that their were more than twelve, besides the one they voted on in the book of acts. You
should not called yourself an Apostle. These men are specially selected by Jesus.
The
reason why I am rebuking you on this subject is because we should
defend strongly what we know to be true, and to me if you can prove it
find it if not, Please
do not called yourself an apostle. I scroll through all the scriptures on
Apostles and unless I have miss it. You are not an apostle, Solomon said rebuke
a wise man and he will love you, rebuke a fool and he will hate you. Remember a
little leven levens the whole lump. May the Lord lead you into his wisdom.
You also have stated
in your other letter these words, PUPILS or LEARNERS, therefore ---Learn what
you must do for God and mankind directly from your Master Teacher, as led by
the Anointing - 1 John 2. Do not place your confidence in mens traditions and
forms, mens peddled teachings sold for money, the Gospel truth sold for money,
men who must be paid a salary to minister the truth, church-house systems and
burdens of expens.]
You have stated that Pastors should not get money for
teaching their congregation this is from the bible
1 Timothy 5:15-17 [ For I am afraid that some of them have
already turned away from the church and been led astray by Satan. Let me remind you again that a widow's
relatives must take care of her, and not leave this to the church to do. Then
the church can spend its money for the care of widows who are all alone and
have nowhere else to turn.


Pastors who do their work well should be paid
well and should be highly appreciated, especially those who work hard at both
preaching and teaching.
} I do not think there is anything wrong with tides as long as it comes from your heart. Jesus told the Rabbis that they should tide but not neglect the fatherless and the poor widows. He who is stingy should not tide. God has not delt with him yet. To him that it is sin and not of faith than it is sin. So when you give give cheerful for God loves a cheerful giver. But a pastor should not have to go out to work. He has enough with his Church us.

Now here is my interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
Falling away from the faith, this means that they no longer
believe in sound doctrine.
Since the church will be gone, there will be no more sound
doctrine?
And that man of sin will be revealed,
the son of perdition;
who opposed and exalted himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sited in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And
now ye know what withhold
The Holy Spirit is
holding him back from appearing after the Holy Spirit is remove from the earth
than that man will be reveal who is Antichrist.
That
he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the
way.
This is plain and clear to me that the
power of the Holy Spirit is holding him back from making his appearing. Because
he will be identified by us right away. And this Antichrist comes in by peace
and he will make himself to be a peace maker. He will make a peace treaty with Israel for
seven years and after that all hell will break loose.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of
his coming:
This is my interpretation of the matter. Anastasia


Thank you Daniel for teaching me how to use this forum God bless you. Ana


Wow, thanks for your Zeal! It's great to hear zealous believers speak. Let's look at the details:

1. To respond to your first statements:
"Hi Brother in Christ I do believed in all the gifs! But
the gift of Apostleship was given to only the thirteen, Luke 6:13 {And when it
was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom
also he named apostles;}Acts 2: 43. {God was using the apostles to do many
powerful and amazing things; every person felt great respect for God.} and I mite be wrong, and if I am wrong than correct
me on this matter,if there was more than the thirteen shown in the Bible.
"





[/b]My response: Yes, you are correct that Christ appointed Apostles according to Luke's account. We also see Matthias being appointed according to Acts 1:21-26. Furthermore, we see Paul being appointed according to Acts 9, eventhough He was not of the original twelve, nor did he see our Lord's death or ressurection, or at least we are not told of such, yet He met the Lord and the Lord appointed Him. Likewise, we see mention of Apollos and Silas as being Apostles - 1 Corinthians 3 and 4, as well as Acts 16. Also we are told of Barnabas in Acts 11. Finally, We are told by the Letter to the Ephesians chapter 4, that Christ gave the gift of apostleship. It is a gift that can and is given at anytime, during any generation, and is especially needed now. If you truly want to question my gift, ask the Lord, He will tell you plainly, verbally. If you would question my appointment, because you assume that the role is merely appointed by the Lord back in those days, then you would have to also assume that I have never spoke to the Lord myself, and that the Lord doesn't talk to people today. The bottomline is that many do not understand the gifts, because they do not seek the Lord directly for them as they should. They rely upon men's traditions and forms as the only way things are to be done. THIS is why there is so much disorder amongst us today.

Next:
If you are going to expose me, good. Do so by the Holy Spirit, because I know that He will not lie. Be careful who you rebuke; you may be contending with the Lord, when you contend with those He sends. I will gladly receive your rebuke IF you are correct. Make sure you are, for we will all be held accountable.

Concerning your statement about Pastors being paid a salary monthly to minister. God is clear about sharing gifts of token appreciation. THIS is not what I'm speaking of. I speak of the monthly salaries received as if they must earn a living for doing what we are all called to do. God is clear in 1 Corinthians 9:10-18 and Acts 20:25-35. Self denial is the key, not taking advantage. We must all endure in order to allow the gospel message it's complete expression. We must not allow anything to hinder it's course. Todays believers have unfortunately been enticed to partake of other men's sins, which we are told in scripture to avoid, and it is mainly due to the traditions of our fathers.

I will continue with the balance of your message Thursday, but thanks for your zeal. God bless you.

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Re: Who can tell me what generation was Jesus talking about?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Thu 03 Jan 2008, 3:33 pm

Dear Brother in Christ

You have a good policy going on, like many leaders in any religious country, cry out this slogan, If you are not with me then you are against God. So people have no choice than to say YES.

Any person who has Holy Spirit, that person does not have to prove but Holy Spirit proves Himself through that person. For that person does not speak but the Holy Spirit speaks.

I would request you to preach the Gospel instead of just trying to prove yourself. So please do it even if you want to use the title of Prophet, or Apostle, or a preacher, or a evangelist, or a pastor.

When we preach Gospel, we are no body, because we preach Jesus Christ and not ourselves. So please, I would request you to preach than to get in to a discussion just for the sake of it.

God bless you

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Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ. (Philemon 1:3)


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Preaching

Post  brother in christ on Fri 04 Jan 2008, 12:16 am

Waqar Daniel wrote:Dear Brother in Christ

You have a good policy going on, like many leaders in any religious country, cry out this slogan, If you are not with me then you are against God. So people have no choice than to say YES.

Any person who has Holy Spirit, that person does not have to prove but Holy Spirit proves Himself through that person. For that person does not speak but the Holy Spirit speaks.

I would request you to preach the Gospel instead of just trying to prove yourself. So please do it even if you want to use the title of Prophet, or Apostle, or a preacher, or a evangelist, or a pastor.

When we preach Gospel, we are no body, because we preach Jesus Christ and not ourselves. So please, I would request you to preach than to get in to a discussion just for the sake of it.

God bless you

Thanks Waqar for your zeal in trying to defend your work of ministry, maintain order on your website. I respect this highly, yet I respect our Lord's call on my life above all. I love you as a fellow believer, I have not disrespected you in anyway or anyone's comments, though I may disagree. I have acknowledged my agreement with certain things, if I've had disagreement I've stated such in general gentle form and have not slandered, twisted or lied in anyway against anyone. You have assumed me angry against others. I am not angry with anyone specific on your site. I am angry in general with the Body, including myself, because so many of us seem to have a very complacient attitude toward doctrine and faith in general. It is because of this complaciency that the Adversary is gaining ground in our turf. I am as guilty as many for allowing this through religion and self-righteousness. I now realize my fault and have yielded my whole self to our God's will. I came on your site and responded to a members question concerning Matthew 24, and I gave a full explaination of what the Lord has given me to share. All of a sudden I am suspect of false teaching and false claims of apostleship, yet I did not angrily respond, but sought to answer every response. I did not come on your site to cause trouble, but I came to inform all, allowing the Lord to convict the hearts of the righteous and wicked, to inform the ignorant and feed the hungry. It would seem that you are more concerned about protecting yourself and the image of your site, then to completely consider by the Holy Spirit what I am saying. Have I said anything false? Have I taught anyone against the Lord? You Say:"Any person who has Holy Spirit, that person does not have to prove but Holy Spirit proves Himself through that person. For that person does not speak but the Holy Spirit speaks." I agree with your statement here, yet you seem to assume that I seek to prove myself. I do not. You say that it is ok for me to preach the truth. Should I do this according to men or God? Should I do this to tickle peoples ears or to convict their hearts. Just because you hear something new to your ears doesn't mean that it is not of the Holy Spirit. You are told by the Lord to TEST by the Holy Spirit. Have you done this, or simply assumed me wrong? Did not the Pharisees respond the same to the Lord? I may be wrong in my conclusion about your response, but God knows your heart. Nevertheless, you say that I am welcome to represent the Lord and not self. I have represented Him, and not self. I will preach the word in season and out. I will not water down my message to pacify those who want to continue only drinking milk. It's grow up time now. The Body is in a critical state and condition. I have not given my name, nor have I exalted myself or calling as if it was meant to be the focus. I simply came to share what was given to me to share by Christ. I have not exalted any man's doctrine, I have not condemned anyone to hell, nor have I spoken a railing accusation against any. I have spoken the truth that the Body is in danger of losing what was established by the shed blood of our Lord, and the faith of the saints. I have not once denied the faith, nor have I enticed anyone to do so. I have not spoken against any denomination, though there are many. I have spoken the truth, and I have challenged anyone to ask the Lord and Father by the Holy Spirit to confirm it. The only reason I've spoken about my call as apostle is to establish my purpose in the context of the message, yet I have been misunderstood as being on a ego trip or glory ride. This is far from the truth. Therefore, I issue the following to you: IF you decide to reject me and my calling, I urge you to not reject the message that the Spirit is speaking to the Church at this time. I am innocent of the judgment that will go forth as a result of this rejection, but will continue to do as our Lord has instructed. You decide how you wish to handle my statements, but please make sure you are led by the Holy Spirit in so doing, because you will be held accountable. You feel my statements are controversial, yet what I have spoken is necessary for discussion. This is free speech country, and while I respect and accept the responsiblity of sound speech and responsible speech, and will not shun to give the whole counsel of God, whether controversial or not. I could have used topics politically correct to maintain the solemnity or your site, yet I also would have been disobedient to our Lord's instruction. You tell me; who should I obey - man or God? Thus, this is my challenge to you: If you feel offended by what I say, take me off, but make sure you are doing what God told you to do. Otherwise, you will bring judgment upon yourself. I am not threatening you, but I am exhorting you to do according to His will, not yours or mines. God bless you and keep you and yours. Amen

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Part two of my reply to your response Jan. 1

Post  brother in christ on Fri 04 Jan 2008, 2:25 am

brother in christ wrote:
anastasia@yeshuastruth.co wrote:Hi Brother in Christ I do believed in all the gifs! But
the gift of Apostleship was given to only the thirteen, Luke 6:13 {And when it
was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom
also he named apostles;}Acts 2: 43. {God was using the apostles to do many
powerful and amazing things; every person felt great respect for God.}
and I mite be wrong, and if I am wrong than correct
me on this matter,if there was more than the thirteen shown in the Bible.

Brother in Christ In this forum we expose
all that is not truth. We must not be contrary to the word of God, and
as a sister I rebuke you publickly for calling yourself an Apostle there were only twelve, and until you can prove to
me that their were more than twelve, besides the one they voted on in the book of acts. You
should not called yourself an Apostle. These men are specially selected by Jesus.
The
reason why I am rebuking you on this subject is because we should
defend strongly what we know to be true, and to me if you can prove it
find it if not, Please
do not called yourself an apostle. I scroll through all the scriptures on
Apostles and unless I have miss it. You are not an apostle, Solomon said rebuke
a wise man and he will love you, rebuke a fool and he will hate you. Remember a
little leven levens the whole lump. May the Lord lead you into his wisdom.
You also have stated
in your other letter these words, PUPILS or LEARNERS, therefore ---Learn what
you must do for God and mankind directly from your Master Teacher, as led by
the Anointing - 1 John 2. Do not place your confidence in mens traditions and
forms, mens peddled teachings sold for money, the Gospel truth sold for money,
men who must be paid a salary to minister the truth, church-house systems and
burdens of expens.]
You have stated that Pastors should not get money for
teaching their congregation this is from the bible
1 Timothy 5:15-17 [ For I am afraid that some of them have
already turned away from the church and been led astray by Satan. Let me remind you again that a widow's
relatives must take care of her, and not leave this to the church to do. Then
the church can spend its money for the care of widows who are all alone and
have nowhere else to turn.


Pastors who do their work well should be paid
well and should be highly appreciated, especially those who work hard at both
preaching and teaching.
} I do not think there is anything wrong with tides as long as it comes from your heart. Jesus told the Rabbis that they should tide but not neglect the fatherless and the poor widows. He who is stingy should not tide. God has not delt with him yet. To him that it is sin and not of faith than it is sin. So when you give give cheerful for God loves a cheerful giver. But a pastor should not have to go out to work. He has enough with his Church us.

Now here is my interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
Falling away from the faith, this means that they no longer
believe in sound doctrine.
Since the church will be gone, there will be no more sound
doctrine?
And that man of sin will be revealed,
the son of perdition;
who opposed and exalted himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sited in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And
now ye know what withhold
The Holy Spirit is
holding him back from appearing after the Holy Spirit is remove from the earth
than that man will be reveal who is Antichrist.
That
he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth
already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the
way.
This is plain and clear to me that the
power of the Holy Spirit is holding him back from making his appearing. Because
he will be identified by us right away. And this Antichrist comes in by peace
and he will make himself to be a peace maker. He will make a peace treaty with Israel for
seven years and after that all hell will break loose.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of
his coming:
This is my interpretation of the matter. Anastasia


Thank you Daniel for teaching me how to use this forum God bless you. Ana


Wow, thanks for your Zeal! It's great to hear zealous believers speak. Let's look at the details:

1. To respond to your first statements:
"Hi Brother in Christ I do believed in all the gifs! But
the gift of Apostleship was given to only the thirteen, Luke 6:13 {And when it
was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom
also he named apostles;}Acts 2: 43. {God was using the apostles to do many
powerful and amazing things; every person felt great respect for God.} and I mite be wrong, and if I am wrong than correct
me on this matter,if there was more than the thirteen shown in the Bible.
"





[/b]My response: Yes, you are correct that Christ appointed Apostles according to Luke's account. We also see Matthias being appointed according to Acts 1:21-26. Furthermore, we see Paul being appointed according to Acts 9, eventhough He was not of the original twelve, nor did he see our Lord's death or ressurection, or at least we are not told of such, yet He met the Lord and the Lord appointed Him. Likewise, we see mention of Apollos and Silas as being Apostles - 1 Corinthians 3 and 4, as well as Acts 16. Also we are told of Barnabas in Acts 11. Finally, We are told by the Letter to the Ephesians chapter 4, that Christ gave the gift of apostleship. It is a gift that can and is given at anytime, during any generation, and is especially needed now. If you truly want to question my gift, ask the Lord, He will tell you plainly, verbally. If you would question my appointment, because you assume that the role is merely appointed by the Lord back in those days, then you would have to also assume that I have never spoke to the Lord myself, and that the Lord doesn't talk to people today. The bottomline is that many do not understand the gifts, because they do not seek the Lord directly for them as they should. They rely upon men's traditions and forms as the only way things are to be done. THIS is why there is so much disorder amongst us today.

Next:
If you are going to expose me, good. Do so by the Holy Spirit, because I know that He will not lie. Be careful who you rebuke; you may be contending with the Lord, when you contend with those He sends. I will gladly receive your rebuke IF you are correct. Make sure you are, for we will all be held accountable.

Concerning your statement about Pastors being paid a salary monthly to minister. God is clear about sharing gifts of token appreciation. THIS is not what I'm speaking of. I speak of the monthly salaries received as if they must earn a living for doing what we are all called to do. God is clear in 1 Corinthians 9:10-18 and Acts 20:25-35. Self denial is the key, not taking advantage. We must all endure in order to allow the gospel message it's complete expression. We must not allow anything to hinder it's course. Todays believers have unfortunately been enticed to partake of other men's sins, which we are told in scripture to avoid, and it is mainly due to the traditions of our fathers.

I will continue with the balance of your message Thursday, but thanks for your zeal. God bless you.


This is part two of my reply to your original response, of which I thank you for zealously writing.

Concerning WIDOWS: you are correct that true widows are to be supported, since because of age or health they may more than likely be beyond doing any major labor for earning, requiring such assistance. This is a loving thing to do anyway.

But, concerning paying for the truth to be ministered, this is another story. We cannot allow the gospel to be hindered. This is percisely what will happen when we do not endure self-denial for the sake of the truth. Earning money has it's place, but not as a common factor in ministry work. This should not be the case.

If allowed, we end up implying that the truth is not free, but for an earthly cost. It was paid for by His blood and given to us FREE, thus given by GRACE,through faith. We are to give it FREE.

Now, I understand your motive for wanting to share with one who preaches, and I agree with tokens of appreciation, but not a salary. You quoted 1 Timothy 5:17, which is also contextually paralleled with 1 Corinthians 9:14. Read this and verse 15 as well. God is telling us through Paul to deny self, contrary to what SEEMS right according to conformity of the world. Yes, in the world mankind seeks payment, but with God grace is sufficient, and we are not to conform to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of our mind. We are to keep money earning in the earthly realm, not in the heavenly.

This is why we must keep the earthly things separate from the heavenly things. This is holiness. This is why according to Matthew 10:8, 9, 10 the Lord is instructing the disciples to go forth in the manner they did, and He emphasizes in verse 8: "FREELY you have RECEIVED, FREELY you must GIVE." Likewise, He states in verse 10: "a WORKER is worthy of his food." This WORKER means to do with your hands for the earning of money or materialism, as Paul did being a TENT MAKER. It does not mean the work of the gosple. Note that God instructs us through Paul the proper way to work with our hands what is good to have to give....Ephesians 4:28, Acts 20:33,34.

So, what Christ is saying to us according to Matthew 10:9 is don't take a bunch a stuff on your journey. He will provide others who will share, but most of all WORK. Work amongst the people in that which is common to the people in a earthly sense, as long as it does not compromise the truth. This means that a elder is like all others. If as an elder, I demand a salary to be paid for being a disciple, then it implies the truth is for sale, and encourages others to market the truth, not preach and hear and receive the truth. We are all disciples being saved from sin. The preacher is not an exception. We must all study to show ourselves approved to God. We must all be led by the Holy Spirit in witnessing. Therefore, 1 Timothy 5:17 is simply exhorting us to honor in sharing a token of thanks, and honor of various types, but not creating a system of salary that can hinder the very work of spiritual truth we are given.

The sharing is to be like Acts 2:45; where ALL share together, and according to need, not simply a chosen few. The system of salary is a tradition of men, and is quite dangerous to us all. A man that requires a salary will perhaps do so because he has attended man's seminary and been taught the gospel, for which he perhaps also paid for. If so, he has his reward; a piece of paper that calls him a doctor of divine things. BUT, God gives us wisdom by the Holy Spirit that men cannot teach, and this is why God reveals through Paul Galatians 1:12.

Therefore, please know that money has it's place, but not for the peddling of the gospel truth. 1 Corinthians 9:18

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