Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

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Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Fri 13 Jun 2008, 7:12 am

While searching Internet I came across a wonderful article, that answers many unanswered questions. I hope that you will also enjoy this article the way I did.

I was just searching for information in your site after not finding the answer in the Bible, I wasn't brought up reading the Bible or for that fact knowing anything about God. Although I have been praying and searching for truths in his word for about 12 years,and I can't seem to find the answer to this question. Does there have to be a manifestation of tongues in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

My response is in Green:

No speaking in tongues is not the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. It was a sign in the early church but it was not what people claim tongues are today. Let me show you what I mean:

(Acts 2:6-12 NIV) [6] When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. [7] Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? [8] Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? [9] Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, [10] Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome [11](both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-- we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" [12] Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"

Notice that these 'tongues' were known languages. The Holy Spirit enabled these Christians to preach in languages they had no knowledge of, not in some unknown language which needed an interpretation. This is where people go off into the weeds. This was a sign which pointed to the authority of the early church. Now there is also the 'gift' of tongues, but look at this:

(1 Corinthians 12:27-30 NIV) [27] Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. [28] And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? [30] Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?

The clear implication of what Paul is saying is that not all believers speak in tongues. Could he mean that all believers are not filled with the Holy Spirit? Hardly, so we know that tongues are not a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here is one more:

(1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV) I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

Again the clear implication is that not everyone speaks in tongues, plus Paul says he would rather have them prophesy. Here is something to think about; how could a person prophesy without being filled with the Holy Spirit? He couldn't, so Paul is not saying he would rather have them prophesy than be filled with the Holy Spirit.

I hope that helped clear it up for you.

Ralph


My question is about speaking in tongues. Some believe that this gift is given to prove a person has been filled with the Holy Spirit." Initial Evidence doctrine." How would you explain this to a person that this doctrine isn't true?

You asked a good question and it is one that many people ask. I would like to quote three passages to you and let them speak for themselves:

(1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV) [7] Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. [8] To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, [9] to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, [10] to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. [11] All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

(1 Corinthians 12:28-31 NIV) [28] And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? [30] Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? [31] eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.

(1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV) I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

Notice in the first passages it says that the Spirit decides what He gives to each person. In the second passage Paul uses a rhetorical question, but the point is clear, not everyone speaks in tongues. In the third passage Paul goes to far as to say that he would rather that people prophesy than speak in tongues. Now if tongues is proof of salvation that passage would be very strange in deed.

Tongues is a gift given by the Holy Spirit to whomever He wishes to give it too. We have no control over which gift we get and all gifts are given for the common good. If tongues were the sign of salvation then Paul would not be wanting people to desire the other gifts instead.

People do the same thing with baptism. Because there are a couple passages that say that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, they assume that baptism is what saves a person. Yet Paul again makes the statement that he is glad he did not baptize anyone at Corinth. That would be pretty strange if baptism was required. People need to take the Bible as a whole and not just portions and ignore the rest.

I hope that helps.

Ralph



Article Source: http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/discuss145.html

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Tongues are for all believers.

Post  liberated on Sat 12 Jul 2008, 4:06 pm

There are at least five different manifestations of tongues recorded in the Bible.
[1] A language that we have never leant. Acts 2: 4--12.
[2] Tongues that speaks mysteries, No man understands, only God. 1 Corinthians 14:2.
[3]Tongues that will edify us. 1 Corinthians 14: 4. Jude 20.
[4]Tongues that will be interpreted. 1 Corinthians 12: 10. 1 Corinthians 14: 27.
This is the tongue that 1 Cor 12: 30 means. [It is not talking about our every day tongues that we got when we were baptised in the Holy Ghost]], It is a gift that some people will have to be able to give a message that will be interpreted
[5]Our Prayer language. 1 Corinthians 14: 14-15.

Jesus said that the believer shall speak with new tongues, It is the evidence that a person has received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost.
If Jesus said it, I believe it, and have received it.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Mon 14 Jul 2008, 5:55 pm

liberated wrote:Jesus said that the believer shall speak with new tongues, It is the evidence that a person has received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost.
If Jesus said it, I believe it, and have received it.
Where did Jesus say this?

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Tue 15 Jul 2008, 6:58 am

FaithfulSon wrote:
liberated wrote:Jesus said that the believer shall speak with new tongues, It is the evidence that a person has received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost.
If Jesus said it, I believe it, and have received it.
Where did Jesus say this?



In Mark 16: 17. Jesus said "The believer shall speak with new tongues".

In Acts 2:4, Acts 8: 14--21, "The word [Matter] in v 21, means, "Tongues, Dialect, language". They had the same experience as Acts 2: 4.
Acts 10: 44--46. Acts 19: 2--6. All these scriptues prove that when one is baptised in the Holy Ghost, They speak in tongues.
[The Bible evidence that speaking in tongues is proof of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost]

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Tue 15 Jul 2008, 10:39 am

Thank you liberated for updating my knowledge and I admit that I was not aware of the verse. But if you read the article, it talks of today's people who claim to have Holy Spirit and what proof they give is speaking in tongues, running up and down in the Church and laughing and shaking.

I have one more question to ask, Jesus Christ is our role model, when He got baptized, did He speak in tongues? Did Joseph speak in tongues when Pharoah siad, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in wohm is the Spirit of God" (Genesis 41:38)?

I hope from your knowledge I may further learn.

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Tue 15 Jul 2008, 9:28 pm

FaithfulSon wrote:Thank you liberated for updating my knowledge and I admit that I was not aware of the verse. But if you read the article, it talks of today's people who claim to have Holy Spirit and what proof they give is speaking in tongues, running up and down in the Church and laughing and shaking.

I have one more question to ask, Jesus Christ is our role model, when He got baptized, did He speak in tongues? Did Joseph speak in tongues when Pharoah siad, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in wohm is the Spirit of God" (Genesis 41:38)?

I hope from your knowledge I may further learn.

In Christ

Tongues is unique to the new testament,
In the old testament the Spirit come on people whenever needed, Mainly on the Prophet, Priest or King.
but in the new testament the Holy Spirit come to indwell believers And those who believe will receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

Although there is no record of Jesus speaking in a heavenly language, I'm sure when He spoke to God, sometimes all night, sometimes a great while before dawn, He would have communed with God in his heavenly language. But Jesus did have a simular [If not the same] tongue as the disciples did on the day of pentecost. Mark 5: 41. Mark 15: 34.
In John 11: 33. Jesus groaned in the spirit, and Rommans 8: 26. says, "The Spirit makes intecession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered [spoken in our native tongue]"

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 5:59 am

The question is Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit? The answer is No as we see in the case of Jesus' baptism. I am not discussing the validity of the tongues. Speaking in Tongues is one of the gifts of Holy Spirit and not a sign.

The list of spiritual gifts in Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Similar lists appear in Ephesians 4:7-13 and Romans 12:3-8. The gifts of the Spirit are simply God enabling believers to do what He has called us to do. 2 Peter 1:3 says, "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness." The gifts of the Holy Spirit are part of the "everything we need" to fulfill His purposes for our lives.
Liberated wrote:In the old testament the Spirit come on people whenever needed, Mainly on the Prophet, Priest or King.
but in the new testament the Holy Spirit come to indwell believers And those who believe will receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
...I have filled him with the spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts - to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut and set stones to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of craftmanship" (Exodus 31:1-11) These were no prophets, kings or Preists.

God cannot change, if Holy Spirit's baptism sign is to speak in tongues, then it should have been in the Old Testament too. However, it is only a gift of Holy Spirit and not a sign as perceived by pentecostals. If you go to any church of pentecostal church, they all speak in tongues but you cannot see the fruits of Holy Spirit in them.

Here is proof that speaking in tongues in no sign of baptism
(1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV) I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
Why did Paul tell them to ask for a superior gift if speaking in tongues is a sign of Baptism of Holy Spirit - Will you please explain?

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 7:04 am

FaithfulSon wrote:The question is Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit? The answer is No as we see in the case of Jesus' baptism. I am not discussing the validity of the tongues. Speaking in Tongues is one of the gifts of Holy Spirit and not a sign.

The list of spiritual gifts in Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Similar lists appear in Ephesians 4:7-13 and Romans 12:3-8. The gifts of the Spirit are simply God enabling believers to do what He has called us to do. 2 Peter 1:3 says, "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness." The gifts of the Holy Spirit are part of the "everything we need" to fulfill His purposes for our lives.
Liberated wrote:In the old testament the Spirit come on people whenever needed, Mainly on the Prophet, Priest or King.
but in the new testament the Holy Spirit come to indwell believers And those who believe will receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
...I have filled him with the spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts - to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut and set stones to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of craftmanship" (Exodus 31:1-11) These were no prophets, kings or Preists.

God cannot change, if Holy Spirit's baptism sign is to speak in tongues, then it should have been in the Old Testament too. However, it is only a gift of Holy Spirit and not a sign as perceived by pentecostals. If you go to any church of pentecostal church, they all speak in tongues but you cannot see the fruits of Holy Spirit in them.

Here is proof that speaking in tongues in no sign of baptism
(1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV) I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
Why did Paul tell them to ask for a superior gift if speaking in tongues is a sign of Baptism of Holy Spirit - Will you please explain?

In Christ


[1] If tongues is not a sign Then Jesus got it wrong. Mark 16: 17. And so did Paul. 1 Corinthians 14: 22.
If you stick to the word of God, you can't go wrong.

[2] The Tongues that are a gift in 1 Corinthians 12: 10, Are the tongues that will be interpreted. and are not the. everyday tongue.
In 1 Corinthians 14: 5. Paul said Everyone can speak in tongues, but not everyone can give a tongue that will be interpreted. You have to see the difference between the two.

[3]If the old testament saint were baptised in the Holy Ghost [There is no terminoligy for this] why didn't they speak in tongues. Everyone that was Baptised in the Holy Ghost in the new testament, spoke in tongues. It is unique to the new testament.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 7:44 am

And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak; serpents they shall take up; and if any deadly thing they may drink, it shall not hurt them; on the ailing they shall lay hands, and they shall be well.' (Mark 16:17)
You wrote
If tongues is not a sign Then Jesus got it wrong. Mark 16: 17. And so did Paul. 1 Corinthians 14: 22.
If you stick to the word of God, you can't go wrong.

Answer
Mark 16:17 does not talk of baptism of Holy Spirit. It talks of:

  • casting out demons
  • speaking in tongues
  • serpents they shall take up
  • poison will not hurt them
  • healing the sick

Where does this verse say that speaking in tongues in the sign of baptism? I think we should not try to make the verse talk in our context. Secondly, all these things will be done in the name of Jesus and the sign is not speaking in tongues but all these things can be done in the name of Jesus.

Now who got it wrong, you, Jesus or Paul?

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 7:52 am

FaithfulSon wrote:
And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak; serpents they shall take up; and if any deadly thing they may drink, it shall not hurt them; on the ailing they shall lay hands, and they shall be well.' (Mark 16:17)
You wrote
If tongues is not a sign Then Jesus got it wrong. Mark 16: 17. And so did Paul. 1 Corinthians 14: 22.
If you stick to the word of God, you can't go wrong.

Answer
Mark 16:17 does not talk of baptism of Holy Spirit. It talks of:

  • casting out demons
  • speaking in tongues
  • serpents they shall take up
  • poison will not hurt them
  • healing the sick



Where does this verse say that speaking in tongues in the sign of baptism? I think we should not try to make the verse talk in our context. Secondly, all these things will be done in the name of Jesus and the sign is not speaking in tongues but all these things can be done in the name of Jesus.

Now who got it wrong, you, Jesus or Paul?

In Christ

You cannot speak in tongues unless you are baptised inthe Holy Ghost.
If you read the end of the gospels of Mark and Luke, you will see that Jesus meant the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
I take it that you aren't baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak with tongues, If you were you would know the truth.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 6:33 pm

liberated wrote:You cannot speak in tongues unless you are baptised inthe Holy Ghost.
I never said that one can speak in tongues if that person is not baptized in Holy Spirit. We have to be baptized in Holy Spirit to use the gifts of Holy Spirit. At the same time, a person who does not speak in tongues can drive out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and can also heal people of their sickness in the name of Jesus Christ. It is not necessary to speak in tongues to cast out demons or is it?

Regarding Mark 16:17; it is a prophesy and not a sign and no where it says that one only considers baptized if that person speaks in tongues. Jesus is our role model and when He was baptized He never spoke in tongues as it was case in ACTS. It was prophesy fulfilled and the prophesy was made by Jesus Himself in Mark 16:17.

No where in the Bible it says that speaking in tongues is to be considered as a sign of baptism. If I am wrong then please quote the verse that specifically says that speaking in tongues is to considered as a sign of baptism. One more thing is that you should not be judging others whether they are baptized in Holy Spirit or not.

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 7:17 pm

FaithfulSon wrote:
liberated wrote:You cannot speak in tongues unless you are baptised inthe Holy Ghost.
I never said that one can speak in tongues if that person is not baptized in Holy Spirit. We have to be baptized in Holy Spirit to use the gifts of Holy Spirit. At the same time, a person who does not speak in tongues can drive out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and can also heal people of their sickness in the name of Jesus Christ. It is not necessary to speak in tongues to cast out demons or is it?

Regarding Mark 16:17; it is a prophesy and not a sign and no where it says that one only considers baptized if that person speaks in tongues. Jesus is our role model and when He was baptized He never spoke in tongues as it was case in ACTS. It was prophesy fulfilled and the prophesy was made by Jesus Himself in Mark 16:17.

No where in the Bible it says that speaking in tongues is to be considered as a sign of baptism. If I am wrong then please quote the verse that specifically says that speaking in tongues is to considered as a sign of baptism. One more thing is that you should not be judging others whether they are baptized in Holy Spirit or not.

In Christ

[1] You don't have to speak in tongues to cast out devils or heal the sick.

[2] Jesus said in Mark 16: 17. " These SIGNS shall follow them that believe", "They shall speak with new tongues, He was talking about the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. So speaking in tongues is a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost.

[3] It doesn't matter wether Jesus spoke in tongues or not, What matters is that Jesus said
"THE BELIEVER SHALL SPEAK IN TONGUES".

[4]Although the wording, "Speaking in tongues is a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost". may not be in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 14: 22. says, "Tongues are for a sign". the Bible says when people are baptised in the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues, "Which is a sign"
Acts 2: 4. Acts 8: 14-21. The word, "Matter" means tongues, Acts 10: 45-46. Acts 19: 6.
The four times that people received the Holy Ghost they all spoke in tongues. So if you take the Bible record, you'll see that speaking in tongues is a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost.

[5] If Jesus said, The believer shall speak in tongues, and 1 Corinthians 14: 4, and Jude 20. say, speaking in tongues builds you up, Then God wants every Christian to speak in tongues, to build them up, God isn't a respector of people, He wont give some people such a wonderfull gift that'll build them up, and not to others.

[6] I don't judge others about being baptised in the Holy Ghost, The word of God is the judge, I am just saying what the Bible says.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  dove on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 8:52 pm

Interesting debate is going on and I would also like to share in it. The Bible is very much clear about Speaking in Tongues. I think that this dispute also arose in the time of Apostles and this why Paul worte
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corin 12:1-13)
Paul does not want us to be ignorant, Paul says that every believer is baptised in Holy Spirit and every person has a gift from Holy Spirit. Therefore, speaking in tongues is no sign of baptism in Holy Spirit. The Spirit is same but the gifts are many as the above quoted verse says.

I agree that Mark 16:17 never says that speaking in tongues is a sign of baptism. Now regarding ACTS 2:4, the Bible never says that the disciples were baptized in Holy Spirit and due to that they started to speak in tongues, rather the verse says
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (ACTS 2:4)
All the disciples were filled with Holy Spirit and not baptized. If the Bible would have said that they were baptized and so they started to speak in tongues then I would consider and believe that speaking in tongues is a sign to baptism in Holy Spirit.

God bless

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 10:37 pm

dove wrote:Interesting debate is going on and I would also like to share in it. The Bible is very much clear about Speaking in Tongues. I think that this dispute also arose in the time of Apostles and this why Paul worte
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Corin 12:1-13)
Paul does not want us to be ignorant, Paul says that every believer is baptised in Holy Spirit and every person has a gift from Holy Spirit. Therefore, speaking in tongues is no sign of baptism in Holy Spirit. The Spirit is same but the gifts are many as the above quoted verse says.

I agree that Mark 16:17 never says that speaking in tongues is a sign of baptism. Now regarding ACTS 2:4, the Bible never says that the disciples were baptized in Holy Spirit and due to that they started to speak in tongues, rather the verse says
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (ACTS 2:4)
All the disciples were filled with Holy Spirit and not baptized. If the Bible would have said that they were baptized and so they started to speak in tongues then I would consider and believe that speaking in tongues is a sign to baptism in Holy Spirit.

God bless


[1] Mark 16:15--18, and Luke 24: 46--49 is Jesus talking to His disciples in the same discorse. In Luke's account Jesus says, " I will send the promise of the Father upon you & you'll be endued with power from on high", Acts 1: 8, In Jesus says, "you shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes on you".
So we know that the power Jesus talks about in Luke, Is the Holy Ghost.
So when Jesus said in Mark 16: 17. "These signs" one of the signs was [Speaking in tongues]. So Jesus said speaking in tongues was a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost. Thats good enough for me.

[2]The disciples WERE baptised in the Holy Ghost [You cannot be Full of the Holy Ghost until you have been baptised in the Holy Ghost]. LOOK AT ACTS 1:5.
" YOU SHALL BE BAPTISED IN THE HOLY GHOST NOT MANY DAYS HENCE".
NOW ACTS 2: 4.
"THEY WERE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND BEGAN TO WHAT?? SPEAK WHITH TONGUES". SO TONGUES ARE A SIGN OF BEING BAPTISED IN THE HOLY GHOST.

[3] When 1 Corinthian 12: 13. says, "By one Spirit we are all baptism into one body". That is talking about the rebirth.
This cannot be the baptism in the Holy Ghost because Paul asked the disciples at Ephesus,
"Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed" Acts 19: 2. If everyone receives the baptism in the Holy Ghost when they are born again Paul would not have asked them that question, Paul would have known that they had, But they hadn't untill Paul laid his hands on them.

In Acts 8:14-15. The disciples at samaria were born again but not baptised in the Holy Ghost, Then v 17, Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.

Paul himself never received the baptism in the Holy Ghost when he got born again.
Acts 9: 6. Paul said, "Lord what will you have me do" HIS CONVERSION, V 17, Ananias called Paul. "BROTHER SAUL" Ananias knew Paul was born again. Then Ananias said to Paul in v17, "The Lord has sent me to fill you with the Holy Ghost". So Paul knew that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is a seperate experience to the rebirth.

[4] Ephesians 4: 5. says, "There is one baptism".
Hebrews 6:2. says, "The doctrine of baptisms", [Plural] this is not a contadiction, the Bible talks about three baptisms.
[1] The baptism in water, An outward sign of an [already] inward experience
[2]The baptism in the Holy Ghost, Acts 1: 5. with the evidence of speaking in tongues Acts 2: 4.
[3] The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12: 13. This is the "One baptism" mentioned in Ephesians 4: 5.
Titus 3: 5. Says, "Washing of regeneration [The new birth] and the
renewing of the Holy Ghost, [the rebirth].

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  dove on Wed 16 Jul 2008, 11:33 pm

Liberated wrote:Mark 16:15--18, and Luke 24: 46--49 is Jesus talking to His disciples in the same discorse. In Luke's account Jesus says, " I will send the promise of the Father upon you & you'll be endued with power from on high", Acts 1: 8, In Jesus says, "you shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes on you".
So we know that the power Jesus talks about in Luke, Is the Holy Ghost.
So when Jesus said in Mark 16: 17. "These signs" one of the signs was [Speaking in tongues]. So Jesus said speaking in tongues was a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost. Thats good enough for me.
Power to do what? To heal the sick raise the dead, cure the lepers, cast down demons and save the souls (Mathew 10:7-8). You cannot prove that speaking in tongues is the sign of baptism of Holy Spirit. You are just adding words from your own to make the verses sound like that.

The new languages you are talking of in ACTS 2:4 were the languages unknown to the apostles and they did not learn them. But people around them did recognize the language
And they were all amazed, and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galileans?
Act 2:8 And how do we hear every man in our own language, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and Proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians we hear them speak in our languages the wonderful works of God. (ACTS 2:7-8)
My friend, you cannot base this verse and neither Mark 16:17 as a proof because in this case then we should be able to understand what you are saying. An Arabian next to you must understand, an Indian next to you must understand, a chinese next to you must understand and so on.

So you are quoting a wrong verse (ACTS 2:4) and Jesus in Mark 16:17 talked of new languages and this was fulfilled in ACTS 2:4. When Jesus talked of speaking in other languages in Mark 16:17, He also pointed it out to the incident of ACTS 2:4.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 7:14 am

dove wrote:
Liberated wrote:Mark 16:15--18, and Luke 24: 46--49 is Jesus talking to His disciples in the same discorse. In Luke's account Jesus says, " I will send the promise of the Father upon you & you'll be endued with power from on high", Acts 1: 8, In Jesus says, "you shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes on you".
So we know that the power Jesus talks about in Luke, Is the Holy Ghost.
So when Jesus said in Mark 16: 17. "These signs" one of the signs was [Speaking in tongues]. So Jesus said speaking in tongues was a sign of being baptised in the Holy Ghost. Thats good enough for me.
Power to do what? To heal the sick raise the dead, cure the lepers, cast down demons and save the souls (Mathew 10:7-Cool. You cannot prove that speaking in tongues is the sign of baptism of Holy Spirit. You are just adding words from your own to make the verses sound like that.

The new languages you are talking of in ACTS 2:4 were the languages unknown to the apostles and they did not learn them. But people around them did recognize the language
And they were all amazed, and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galileans?
Act 2:8 And how do we hear every man in our own language, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and Proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians we hear them speak in our languages the wonderful works of God. (ACTS 2:7-Cool
My friend, you cannot base this verse and neither Mark 16:17 as a proof because in this case then we should be able to understand what you are saying. An Arabian next to you must understand, an Indian next to you must understand, a chinese next to you must understand and so on.

So you are quoting a wrong verse (ACTS 2:4) and Jesus in Mark 16:17 talked of new languages and this was fulfilled in ACTS 2:4. When Jesus talked of speaking in other languages in Mark 16:17, He also pointed it out to the incident of ACTS 2:4.


[1] You have to put he Bible in it's right context, I have shown you by scripture that tongues are the evidence [Or sign] of the baptism in the Holy Ghost. One of the signs is speaking in tongues, Your arguement is not with me, it is with God. He is the one that wrote the scriptures that I have quoted.


[2] You have to Take the whole Bible [and tongues] to understand the full subject of tongues, There are Five different manifestation of tongue recorded in the Bible. You have only quoted one of them, and built your own doctrine.

[1] Different languages, Acts 2: 4--12.
[2] Tongues that are mysteries, no one will understand, Only God. 1 Corinthians 14: 2. & v21, [The word] "Hear" means, "Understand", the same as understand in v2.
[3] Tongues the will be interpreted, 1 Corinthians 12: 10. This is the tongue that 1 Corinthians 12: 30, says, "Do all speak with tongues?", Meaning [A tongue that'll be interpreted.[ Put it in context]
[4] Tongues that are our prayer language, 1 Corinthians 14: 14--15.
[5] Tongues that will build us up, 1 Corinthians 14: 4. Jude 20.

Jesus said, "The believer shall speak in tongues", Mark 16: 17.
And Paul, inspiered by the Holy Ghost said, Everyone should speak in tongues, 1 Corinthians 14:26, & 5, & 18.
So a sign of the Bible's record of being baptised in the Holy Ghost, "Is speaking in tongues".

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  Waqar Daniel on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 3:28 pm

Dear Liberated

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight on the scriptures and I pray that each visit of yours brings new blessings of God to this website. I have to make one request, please do not quote the whole reply of any member. If you wish to quote then please quote the relevant portion.

I am making this request to you because when people search on google, msn and yahoo, your articles will not be read. Google, msn and yahoo will consider your replies as duplicates and will discard them from their search engines.

God bless you and your family

_________________


Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ. (Philemon 1:3)


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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  dove on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 8:53 pm

You gave the reference of Mark 16:17 and let us see what it says in depth
International Standard Version
These are the signs that will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"These are the miraculous signs that will accompany believers: They will use the power and authority of my name to force demons out of people. They will speak new languages.

King James Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

American King James Version
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

American Standard Version
And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;

Bible in Basic English
And these signs will be with those who have faith: in my name they will send out evil spirits; and they will make use of new languages;

Douay-Rheims Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues.

Darby Bible Translation
And these signs shall follow those that have believed: in my name they shall cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;

English Revised Version
And these signs shall follow them that believe: in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Webster's Bible Translation
And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new languages;

Weymouth New Testament
And signs shall attend those who believe, even such as these. By making use of my name they shall expel demons. They shall speak new languages.

World English Bible
These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new languages;

Young's Literal Translation
'And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak;
Parallel Commentaries[quote]Geneva Study Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with {e} new tongues;

(e) Strange tongues, ones which they did not know before.

People's New Testament

16:17 These signs shall follow them that believe. It is generally held that this is a promise limited to the apostolic age and to a few of the disciples of that age. Perhaps the plural them does not have for its antecedent the singular he in Mr 16:16, but the plural them in Mr 16:14. If it does not, why is the number changed in Mr 16:15,16? The grammatical construction requires us to look to Mr 16:14 for the antecedent of them in Mr 16:17. In Mr 16:14 the apostles are upbraided for their unbelief because they believed not them who had seen him after he had arisen. They are commended to go and tell the glad story, and assured that miraculous credentials shall be given to those of them who believe and tell the wonderful tidings.

In my name shall they cast out demons, etc. See Mr 16:14-16 Ac 2:4 5:16 8:07 16:18 28:3.

Wesley's Notes

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe - An eminent author sub - joins, That believe with that very faith mentioned in the preceding verse . (Though it is certain that a man may work miracles, and not have saving faith, Matt 7:22,23.) It was not one faith by which St. Paul was saved, another by which he wrought miracles. Even at this day in every believer faith has a latent miraculous power; (every effect of prayer being really miraculous;) although in many, both because of their own littleness of faith, and because the world is unworthy, that power is not exerted. Miracles, in the beginning, were helps to faith; now also they are the object of it. At Leonberg, in the memory of our fathers, a cripple that could hardly move with crutches, while the dean was preaching on this very text, was in a moment made whole. Shall follow - The word and faith must go before. In my name - By my authority committed to them. Raising the dead is not mentioned. So our Lord performed even more than he promised.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

17, 18. And these signs shall follow them that believe . They shall take up serpents-These two verses also are peculiar to Mark.

The Ascension and Triumphant Proclamation of the Gospel Thereafter (Mr 16:19, 20).

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

16:14-18 The evidences of the truth of the gospel are so full, that those who receive it not, may justly be upbraided with their unbelief. Our blessed Lord renewed his choice of the eleven as his apostles, and commissioned them to go into all the world, to preach his gospel to every creature. Only he that is a true Christian shall be saved through Christ. Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25. Doubtless this is a solemn declaration of that true faith which receives Christ in all his characters and offices, and for all the purposes of salvation, and which produces its right effect on the heart and life; not a mere assent, which is a dead faith, and cannot profit. The commission of Christ's ministers extends to every creature throughout the world, and the declarations of the gospel contain not only truths, encouragements, and precepts, but also most awful warnings. Observe what power the apostles should be endued with, for confirming the doctrine they were to preach. These were miracles to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it.

These clearly shows that speaking in tongues (languages) is no proof for baptism of Holy Spirit

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 9:02 pm

Can you explain the following verse in your own context as you claim that you have the Holy Spirit
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown language, speaketh not to men, but to God: for no man understandeth him; yet in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth, speaketh to men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown language edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spoke in languages, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh in languages, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in languages, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet shall give an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore, if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh will be a barbarian to me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore, let him that speaketh in an unknown language, pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown language, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else, when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak in languages more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown language.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: yet in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak to this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore languages are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them who believe.
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church is assembled in one place, and all speak in languages, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are insane?
In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 9:04 pm

The whole context of 1 Corinthians 14 is:

We should earnestly desire spiritual gifts; but prophesying is to be preferred, because it is superior to the gift of tongues, 1Co_14:1, 1Co_14:2. Prophesying defined, 1Co_14:3. How to regulate this supernatural gift of tongues, in teaching for the edification of the Church, 1Co_14:4-13. In praying and giving thanks, 1Co_14:14-17. Those who speak with tongues should interpret that others may be edified, 1Co_14:18-22 What benefit may accrue from this in the public assemblies, 1Co_14:23-28. How the prophets or teachers should act in the Church, 1Co_14:29-33. Women should keep silence in the church, 1Co_14:34, 1Co_14:35. All should be humble, and every thing should be done in love, 1Co_14:36-40.

If prophesying is superior to speaking in tongues as Paul has said so through Holy Spirit, then how can it be a sign of baptism?

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 10:02 pm

[quote="dove"]You gave the reference of Mark 16:17 and let us see what it says in depth
International Standard Version
These are the signs that will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"These are the miraculous signs that will accompany believers: They will use the power and authority of my name to force demons out of people. They will speak new languages.

King James Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

American King James Version
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

American Standard Version
And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;

Bible in Basic English
And these signs will be with those who have faith: in my name they will send out evil spirits; and they will make use of new languages;

Douay-Rheims Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues.

Darby Bible Translation
And these signs shall follow those that have believed: in my name they shall cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;

English Revised Version
And these signs shall follow them that believe: in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Webster's Bible Translation
And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new languages;

Weymouth New Testament
And signs shall attend those who believe, even such as these. By making use of my name they shall expel demons. They shall speak new languages.

World English Bible
These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new languages;

Young's Literal Translation
'And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak;
Parallel Commentaries
Geneva Study Bible
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with {e} new tongues;

(e) Strange tongues, ones which they did not know before.

People's New Testament

16:17 These signs shall follow them that believe. It is generally held that this is a promise limited to the apostolic age and to a few of the disciples of that age. Perhaps the plural them does not have for its antecedent the singular he in Mr 16:16, but the plural them in Mr 16:14. If it does not, why is the number changed in Mr 16:15,16? The grammatical construction requires us to look to Mr 16:14 for the antecedent of them in Mr 16:17. In Mr 16:14 the apostles are upbraided for their unbelief because they believed not them who had seen him after he had arisen. They are commended to go and tell the glad story, and assured that miraculous credentials shall be given to those of them who believe and tell the wonderful tidings.

In my name shall they cast out demons, etc. See Mr 16:14-16 Ac 2:4 5:16 8:07 16:18 28:3.

Wesley's Notes

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe - An eminent author sub - joins, That believe with that very faith mentioned in the preceding verse . (Though it is certain that a man may work miracles, and not have saving faith, Matt 7:22,23.) It was not one faith by which St. Paul was saved, another by which he wrought miracles. Even at this day in every believer faith has a latent miraculous power; (every effect of prayer being really miraculous;) although in many, both because of their own littleness of faith, and because the world is unworthy, that power is not exerted. Miracles, in the beginning, were helps to faith; now also they are the object of it. At Leonberg, in the memory of our fathers, a cripple that could hardly move with crutches, while the dean was preaching on this very text, was in a moment made whole. Shall follow - The word and faith must go before. In my name - By my authority committed to them. Raising the dead is not mentioned. So our Lord performed even more than he promised.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

17, 18. And these signs shall follow them that believe . They shall take up serpents-These two verses also are peculiar to Mark.

The Ascension and Triumphant Proclamation of the Gospel Thereafter (Mr 16:19, 20).

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

16:14-18 The evidences of the truth of the gospel are so full, that those who receive it not, may justly be upbraided with their unbelief. Our blessed Lord renewed his choice of the eleven as his apostles, and commissioned them to go into all the world, to preach his gospel to every creature. Only he that is a true Christian shall be saved through Christ. Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25. Doubtless this is a solemn declaration of that true faith which receives Christ in all his characters and offices, and for all the purposes of salvation, and which produces its right effect on the heart and life; not a mere assent, which is a dead faith, and cannot profit. The commission of Christ's ministers extends to every creature throughout the world, and the declarations of the gospel contain not only truths, encouragements, and precepts, but also most awful warnings. Observe what power the apostles should be endued with, for confirming the doctrine they were to preach. These were miracles to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it.

These clearly shows that speaking in tongues (languages) is no proof for baptism of Holy Spirit


[1] How do these writing show that Tongues is no proof of being baptised in the Holy Ghost.
[A] Don't go by mans opinion or commentary's They put their own thoughts.
Don't put your own opinion, The Bible is the only guide to the truth.

[2]
Lets see what the Bible says about the baptism in the Holy Ghost,
and tongue as the evidence, [Sign]

[1] Acts 2: 4.[TONGUES, A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]
[2] Acts 8:17 & 21, The Greek word for "Matter" in v 21, Means, "Tongue, dialect, language". they had the same experience as the disciples in Acts 2.
[TONGUES, A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]
[3] Acts 9: 17. Paul being filled with the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 14: 18. Paul said,
"I thank God that I SPEAK IN TONGUES MORE THEN YOU ALL" .
[TONGUES A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]
[4]Acts 10: 44-46. [TONGUES A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]
[5] Acts 19: 6. [TONGUES A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]
[6] When Jesus said in Mark 16: 17, "They shall speak in new tongues" He was talking about the baptism in the Holy Ghost, We cannot speak in tongues [Our Heavenly language] without being baptised in the Holy Ghost. I uses the word "Baptised", because Jesus does, Acts 1: 5.
Peter does Acts 11: 16. [TONGUES A SIGN OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST]

[3] The Bible has listed six records of, TONGUES AS A SIGN OF BEING BAPTISED IN THE HOLY GHOST.
The Bible says "Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word be established".
The Bible has given you SIX WITNESSES.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 10:09 pm

FaithfulSon wrote:The whole context of 1 Corinthians 14 is:

We should earnestly desire spiritual gifts; but prophesying is to be preferred, because it is superior to the gift of tongues, 1Co_14:1, 1Co_14:2. Prophesying defined, 1Co_14:3. How to regulate this supernatural gift of tongues, in teaching for the edification of the Church, 1Co_14:4-13. In praying and giving thanks, 1Co_14:14-17. Those who speak with tongues should interpret that others may be edified, 1Co_14:18-22 What benefit may accrue from this in the public assemblies, 1Co_14:23-28. How the prophets or teachers should act in the Church, 1Co_14:29-33. Women should keep silence in the church, 1Co_14:34, 1Co_14:35. All should be humble, and every thing should be done in love, 1Co_14:36-40.

If prophesying is superior to speaking in tongues as Paul has said so through Holy Spirit, then how can it be a sign of baptism?

In Christ

Read my answer that I have written to Dove.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 10:13 pm

FaithfulSon wrote:Can you explain the following verse in your own context as you claim that you have the Holy Spirit
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown language, speaketh not to men, but to God: for no man understandeth him; yet in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth, speaketh to men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown language edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spoke in languages, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh in languages, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in languages, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet shall give an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore, if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh will be a barbarian to me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore, let him that speaketh in an unknown language, pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown language, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else, when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak in languages more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown language.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: yet in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak to this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore languages are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them who believe.
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church is assembled in one place, and all speak in languages, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are insane?
In Christ



I don't have to explain it, Just read it and believe it, it is self explanitary.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Thu 17 Jul 2008, 11:49 pm

I will read it for you
The person who speaks in a tongue builds himself up, but the person who prophesies builds the church up. (1 Corinthians 14:4)
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue
In the Hebrew for instance, the knowledge of the depth and power of which he has got by a Divine revelation, edifieth himself by that knowledge.

But he that prophesieth - Has the gift of preaching.
Now I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in a tongue, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up. (1 Corinthinas 14:5)
I would that ye all spake with tongues
The word θελω does not so much imply a wish or desire, as a command or permission. As if he had said: I do not restrain you to prophesying or teaching though I prefer that; but I give you full permission to speak in Hebrew whenever it is proper, and when one is present who can interpret for the edification of the Church, provided yourselves have not that gift, though you understand the language. The apostle said tongue, in the singular number, 1Co_14:2, 1Co_14:4, because he spoke of a single man; now he says tongues, in the plural number, because he speaks of many speaking; but he has the same meaning in both places. - Lightfoot.

Greater is he that prophesieth
A useful, zealous preacher, though unskilled in learned languages, is much greater in the sight of God, and in the eye of sound common sense, than he who has the gift of those learned tongues; except he interpret: and we seldom find great scholars good preachers. This should humble the scholar, who is too apt to be proud of his attainments, and despise his less learned but more useful brother. This judgment of St. Paul is too little regarded.
Indeed, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what good will I be to you unless I speak to you in some revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or teaching?
1Co 14:7 In the same way, lifeless instruments like the flute or harp produce sounds. But if there's no difference in the notes, how can a person tell what tune is being played?
1Co 14:8 For example, if a bugle doesn't sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 In the same way, unless you speak an intelligible message with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? You'll be talking into the air!
In the same way
If ye do not speak in the Church so as to be understood, your labor is useless; ye shall speak into the air - your speech will be lost and dissipated in the air, without conveying any meaning to any person: there will be a noise or sound, but nothing else. Gifts of that kind, thus used, are good for nothing.
If I don't know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker will be a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 In the same way, since you're so desirous of spiritual gifts, you must keep on desiring them for the upbuilding of the church.
1Cor 14:13 herefore, the person who speaks in a tongue should pray for the ability to interpret it.
For as much as ye are zealous
Seeing ye affect so much to have spiritual gifts, seek that ye may get those by which ye may excel in edifying the Church.

Pray that he may interpret - Let him who speaks or reads the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament, in that tongue in which they were originally spoken and written, pray to God that he may so understand them himself, and receive the gift of interpretation, that he may be able to explain them in all their depth and latitude to others.
Tongues, then, are meant to be a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is meant, not for unbelievers, but for believers. (1 Cor 14:22)
Not it is a sign not of baptism but of the power of God. The miraculous gift of tongues was never designed for the benefit of those who have already believed, but for the instruction of unbelievers, that they might see from such a miracle that this is the work of God; and so embrace the Gospel. But as, in the times of the prophet, the strange Babylonish tongues came in the way of punishment, and not in the way of mercy; take heed that it be not the case now: that, by dwelling on the gift, ye forget the Giver; and what was designed for you as a blessing, may prove to you to be a curse. For if, because ye have the gift of tongues, ye will choose for your own aggrandizement to use them in the public congregation where none understands them, God may curse your blessings.
If anyone speaks in a tongue, only two or three at the most should do so, one at a time, and somebody must interpret.
1Co 14:28 If an interpreter is not present, he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God.
My last question - if speaking in tongues is a sign of Holy Spirit coming on a person then why did Paul say he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God

Did I read good?

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Fri 18 Jul 2008, 8:20 am

FaithfulSon wrote:I will read it for you
The person who speaks in a tongue builds himself up, but the person who prophesies builds the church up. (1 Corinthians 14:4)
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue
In the Hebrew for instance, the knowledge of the depth and power of which he has got by a Divine revelation, edifieth himself by that knowledge.

But he that prophesieth - Has the gift of preaching.
Now I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in a tongue, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up. (1 Corinthinas 14:5)
I would that ye all spake with tongues
The word θελω does not so much imply a wish or desire, as a command or permission. As if he had said: I do not restrain you to prophesying or teaching though I prefer that; but I give you full permission to speak in Hebrew whenever it is proper, and when one is present who can interpret for the edification of the Church, provided yourselves have not that gift, though you understand the language. The apostle said tongue, in the singular number, 1Co_14:2, 1Co_14:4, because he spoke of a single man; now he says tongues, in the plural number, because he speaks of many speaking; but he has the same meaning in both places. - Lightfoot.

Greater is he that prophesieth
A useful, zealous preacher, though unskilled in learned languages, is much greater in the sight of God, and in the eye of sound common sense, than he who has the gift of those learned tongues; except he interpret: and we seldom find great scholars good preachers. This should humble the scholar, who is too apt to be proud of his attainments, and despise his less learned but more useful brother. This judgment of St. Paul is too little regarded.
Indeed, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what good will I be to you unless I speak to you in some revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or teaching?
1Co 14:7 In the same way, lifeless instruments like the flute or harp produce sounds. But if there's no difference in the notes, how can a person tell what tune is being played?
1Co 14:8 For example, if a bugle doesn't sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 In the same way, unless you speak an intelligible message with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? You'll be talking into the air!
In the same way
If ye do not speak in the Church so as to be understood, your labor is useless; ye shall speak into the air - your speech will be lost and dissipated in the air, without conveying any meaning to any person: there will be a noise or sound, but nothing else. Gifts of that kind, thus used, are good for nothing.
If I don't know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker will be a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 In the same way, since you're so desirous of spiritual gifts, you must keep on desiring them for the upbuilding of the church.
1Cor 14:13 herefore, the person who speaks in a tongue should pray for the ability to interpret it.
For as much as ye are zealous
Seeing ye affect so much to have spiritual gifts, seek that ye may get those by which ye may excel in edifying the Church.

Pray that he may interpret - Let him who speaks or reads the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament, in that tongue in which they were originally spoken and written, pray to God that he may so understand them himself, and receive the gift of interpretation, that he may be able to explain them in all their depth and latitude to others.
Tongues, then, are meant to be a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is meant, not for unbelievers, but for believers. (1 Cor 14:22)
Not it is a sign not of baptism but of the power of God. The miraculous gift of tongues was never designed for the benefit of those who have already believed, but for the instruction of unbelievers, that they might see from such a miracle that this is the work of God; and so embrace the Gospel. But as, in the times of the prophet, the strange Babylonish tongues came in the way of punishment, and not in the way of mercy; take heed that it be not the case now: that, by dwelling on the gift, ye forget the Giver; and what was designed for you as a blessing, may prove to you to be a curse. For if, because ye have the gift of tongues, ye will choose for your own aggrandizement to use them in the public congregation where none understands them, God may curse your blessings.
If anyone speaks in a tongue, only two or three at the most should do so, one at a time, and somebody must interpret.
1Co 14:28 If an interpreter is not present, he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God.
My last question - if speaking in tongues is a sign of Holy Spirit coming on a person then why did Paul say he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God

Did I read good?

In Christ

[1] Prophecy is not "The gift of preaching" it is one of the revelation gifts recorded in 1 Corinthians 12:
The others being The word of wisdom, and the word of knowledge. The word of wisdom is, "An insight into futur events", The word of knowledge is, "Insight into past or present happenings".

[2] When Paul said, "He should remain silent in the Church and speak to himself and to God" 1 Cor 14: 28.
He was talking about speaking in tongues to himself and to God. See the context that it is in.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  FaithfulSon on Fri 18 Jul 2008, 9:03 pm

I am sorry dear friend, you try very hard to make the verses speak for you but really your struggle. Speaking in tongues is only a gift and not a sign. You have failed to put up a single verse form the Bible that would justify your thought. Produce one single verse, you misquoted Mark 16:17 and ACTS 2:4 as they speak of new languages and not the mysterious language or as may some say angelic language.

Give me one proof from the Bible and again I ask the same question, which you avoided to answer
My last question - if speaking in tongues is a sign of Holy Spirit coming on a person then why did Paul say he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God
In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  liberated on Sat 19 Jul 2008, 9:06 am

FaithfulSon wrote:I am sorry dear friend, you try very hard to make the verses speak for you but really your struggle. Speaking in tongues is only a gift and not a sign. You have failed to put up a single verse form the Bible that would justify your thought. Produce one single verse, you misquoted Mark 16:17 and ACTS 2:4 as they speak of new languages and not the mysterious language or as may some say angelic language.

Give me one proof from the Bible and again I ask the same question, which you avoided to answer
My last question - if speaking in tongues is a sign of Holy Spirit coming on a person then why did Paul say he should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God
In Christ



You havn't read one word that God has said to you, Because you have your pre-conceived idear what you think the Bible says.
I have shown you abundance of scripture that prove Speaking in tongues is a sign that a person is baptised in the Holy Ghost.

[1] I havn't misquoted Mk 16, If Jesus said it was a sign Why do you disagree with Him.

[2] You have to keep scripture in it's right context, 1 Cor 14: 26--28. Is all talking about speaking in tongues, Then v27--28, is talking about "A tongue that'll be interpreted", It isn't talking about our everyday Spiritual tongue, That why Paul says in v28,
"Keep silent [Don't give a messege in tongues if no-one is there to interpret it], But Speak to your self [in tongues], and to God". As I have told you There are five manifestations of tongues, The 1st tongue in v28 is the one that should be interpreted, and is only one of them, The 2nd tongue in v28, Is our prayer language tongue or the tongues that, build us up , or tongues that speak in a language that we havn't learnt, or tongues that speak mysteries, [ Hiden secrets, that'll be revealed] These are Tongues that only God knows, 1 Corinthians calls them, "Tongues of Angels" [A Heavenly language].

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  THE ROCK on Sat 19 Jul 2008, 6:59 pm

When the book of Acts is compared with Paul's teaching to the Corinthian church, several things become certain.

(1) Tongue-speaking is nowhere asserted to be a universal phenomenon.

(2) In both places it was a sign to Jews that the speakers had received the Holy Spirit.

(3) When the Acts teaching that all believers are to receive the Spirit is compared with Paul's position in Romans 8 and contrasted with his statement to the Corinthians that tongue-speaking was not a gift for every Christian, then it becomes clear that tongue-speaking was not the only sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit.

(4) Since apostolic days, every believer, as soon as he believes and is saved, receives the Holy Spirit--he is baptized (immersed) in the Holy Spirit. One might even note that Paul told the Corinthians that "we have all been baptized in one spirit" even though we do not all speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:12.). Probably, however, "baptized in one spirit" in 1 Corinthians 12:12 does not refer to what is described in Acts but points to baptism in water.

(5) Tongue-speaking, a phenomenon of the apostolic age, therefore, has ceased in this age, for it is no longer needed as a sign to Jews.

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  LivinginChrist on Sat 19 Jul 2008, 11:19 pm

Are Tongues the proof of the Holy Spirit's presence?
Eph.1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: having believed, you were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise," (2 Cor. 1:22)

Gal.3:2 "Did you Received the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Faith comes by hearing the word." Baptism is an act of faith which must be present before they are submerged, notice they received the Spirit by faith, by believing not by anything else.

1 Cor.12:13 "For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body." Not by one baptism do we enter. It is spirit baptism that counts.

All believers receive the baptism of the Spirit to be in Christ. This takes place at the moment of salvation when one exercises faith in Christ. What we are commanded is to be continually filled with the Spirit. Not to seek for the baptism as something we don't have after we believe.

Tongues is not the proof this has happened because the very same Chapter that we are told of being baptized with the Holy Spirit we are also told not all speak in tongues. Ephesians.5:18 tells us if one is filled with the Spirit they will speak in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs- no tongues are mentioned.

Its not tongues that is proof of our salvation but the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mt.717: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mt. 12:33 "a tree is known by its fruit". The fruit of the Spirit shows the life of Christ.

Tongues is only one manifestation of the Spirits influence. It can also be prophecy and boldness in speaking the word (in the correct manner). It can be a great harvest of people coming to Christ as in an evangelistic crusade (like Peters first sermon).

In Christ

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Re: Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  AngelicSmile on Sat 19 Jul 2008, 11:29 pm

I believe that speaking in tongues (languages) is not sign or proof that a person is baptized in Spirit. To support this, I will quote the following verse that makes this this issue crystal clear
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, ""Jesus is accursed''; and no one can say, ""Jesus is Lord,'' except by the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:1-13)
Notice a couple of things from this passage-

1. Paul states "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit."
2. Earnestly proclaiming Jesus as Lord happens at the point of salvation (Romans 10:9)
3. Those who have been saved are known corporately as "the Body of Christ"(1 Cor. 12:27 and verse 12 above.)
4. We become a part of this body through baptism by the Spirit (verse13 above).
5. Baptism of the Spirit happens only once (Eph. 4:5)

Therefore, the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at the point of regeneration and indwelling. Although they are different in scope (the baptism is a one time event, the indwelling of the Spirit is continuous), every believer enters the body of Christ at the time of conversion.

Ultimately this means that if everyone who is saved is baptized by the Spirit, but the Spirit doesn't give everyone the gift of tongues, then the gift of tongues are not a proof of salvation. In fact, Paul categorically denies this when he writes, "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? (1 Cor. 12:30)." If the Bible teaches that not everyone has the gift of tongues, then how can this be a required sign of salvation?

In fact, the belief that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of salvation is a relatively new phenomenon. Vinson Synan, Ph.D who is now dean of the school of Divinity at Regent University researched and wrote about the modern Pentecostal movement. Far from being a detractor, his article is published on the Oral Roberts University website. Dr. Synan writes, "The first person to be baptized in the Holy Spirit accompanied by speaking in tongues was Agnes Ozman, one of Parham's Bible School students, who spoke in tongues on the very first day of the new century, January 1, 1901". So baptism of the Holy Spirit as the modern Pentecostals define it is not known historically in Christendom.

The Spirit can indeed at certain points fill us with His power to specifically accomplish tasks or to help us in our witness. The filling is shown various places in scripture (Luke 1:15, Luke 1:67, Acts 2:4, Acts 4:8, Acts 9:17 and others) and is recorded as happening to the same individuals on more than one occasion. As an example, Paul was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17 and again in Acts 13:9.

So the filling of the Spirit is given by God for special service or ministry, but believers are not limited to it being just that. They can live their lives in fullness of Spirit (Acts 6:3) and thereby bring forth the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22ff). The gifts you receive from the Spirit are not tied directly to the filling of the Spirit, but the Spirit's filling will allow you to exercise your gifts more effectively.

Reference: http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holyspirit/pentorg1.html

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Is tongues proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit?

Post  Fenny West on Sat 19 Jul 2008, 11:54 pm

First of all it is important to establish that every believer has the Holy Spirit in a measure.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. ( Ro.8:9)

However that measure is different from the fullness of the Holy Spirit.

He who believes in Me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” ohn7:38

The difference can be pictured when you look at a glass that has water and that which has been submerged in a bucket full of water.

True, on the Day of Pentecost the disciples who were baptized with the Holy Spirit spoke in the languages that the people around them understood but as has been shown, there are different types of tongues:

The one you use to thank and glorify God as you speak mysteries (1Cor14:2), the one you use to build yourself up (Jude 20); the one given for the building up of the Body of Christ in a Church setting requiring interpretation ( 1Cor12:) the tongues of men as was evidenced on the day of Pentecost.

Doctrinal basis

Acts8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

:18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

It would be instructive to ask: What did Simon see when hands were laid on those who received the Holy Spirit.? There was an external manifestation that convinced him. What was it?

Peter had to rebuke Simon who wanted the power of the Holy Spirit to showoff because he was ego-driven.

Again when Peter responded God’s direction to go to the house of Cornelius to show him the way to salvation we are told that as he was speaking the Holy Ghost fell and they received the Holy Spirit. Here again how did they know that they had received the Holy Spirit.” 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Paul arrived at Ephesus and found some Christians who only knew about baptism in water. They were ignorant about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, clearly spelled out.

Testimony

I confess I had problems with speaking in tongue not long after giving my life to the Lord. The people around me spoke in tongues and I felt uneasy and the sound of the tongues also put me off. Initially I did not want to have anything to do with it. But I had to search the scriptures and humble myself.

Later I decided that if speaking in tongues were of God, I wanted it. However I still struggled because I did not know how to receive. I thought the Holy Spirit will do the speaking so I waited in frustration. My eyes were later opened to the fact that I would do the speaking but the Holy Spirit would give me what to speak. There was no need to worry about what will come out. I had to believe that when I was prayed for to receive the Holy Spirit, I would receive the ability to speak. I also realized that just like in little babies who are learning to speak , what will come out of my mouth could be short syllables but it did not matter; with time ,as I practiced, it will flow.

There was also the concern that I may receive something from the devil if I accepted the evidence of speaking in tongues as a sign of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

11 What father among you, if his son
asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" This helped to renew my mind to expect the best from God.

This was my struggle in 1982, about June, during the Pentecost season. I went to church and the sermon was on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I went for prayer and nothing happened partly for the reasons given above. However after I had my mind renewed and desired that evidence I got it while waiting on the Lord in my bedroom.

Over the years I have used this gift to build myself up, like recharging my spiritual battery. I consciously do it by faith according to God’s word and I know it is working for me. In my closet I have occasionally prayed in tongues and interpreted it for myself and the experience is awesome. God has spoken to me through the exercise of this gift. Of course I had to ensure that any divine direction from this exercise agreed with the word of God because God is not the Author of confusion.

I have also been privileged to interpret tongues uttered in a church setting.

There have also been occasions where during my prayer I just resort to praying in the spirit ( or in tongues) because I knew it was the best thing to do at that time, especially if I did not know what to pray for or how to pray for it. I knew that letting the Holy Spirit pray though me amounted to praying according to God’s perfect will. At other times during my prayer, I run out of words and then go into the ‘overdrive’ or another level, which is praying in the spirit of speaking in tongues. It is all by faith.

I have no doubt that the baptism in the Holy Spirit plays a great part in my writing hundreds of songs and poems over these years and multiplication of my gifts and talents and living the Christian life. He reminds me of these songs as and when He wants me to use them to minister to the Body of Christ. Often when I marvel at my ability to recall the songs, I remind myself that it is the Holy Spirit at work. I would have short-changed myself if I did not renew my mind about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I have also discovered that the miraculous eludes those who do not embrace the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Paul who wrote to admonish the Christians who were abusing the use of tongues also said:

"I thank God that I speak in [other] languages more than all of you;" (1Cor14:18)

Paul’s concern was that everything should be done in order. he did not forbid speaking in tongues.

“Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in [other] languages. 40 But everything must be done decently and in order.”

Why have I embraced baptism with the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

I want to recharge my spiritual batteries which go flat from time to time. 20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

How marvelous it is to speak mysteries to God from time to time praising Him or thanking him.
2For anyone who speaks in a tonguedoes not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.

Praying according to the perfect will of God is important to me.
It is wonderful to have the Holy Spirit praying through me with groaning that cannot be uttered.
26 In the same way the Spirit also joins to help in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings. 27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit's mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom.8:26,27


it is awesome to be able to pray in tongues and interpret and receive Rhema word (what God is saying to you at the time) to meet my needs.

It is great to be able to discern the spirit operating in an individual- God’s, man’s or the devil.

to another, distinguishing between spirits, 1Cor12:10

My gifts would have been dormant to another, distinguishing between spirits, or very limited but for exposing myself this type of baptism.

(1Cor12:4-11,Eph4.:111Tim4:12-16)

It is true that there have been excesses in the use of this gift in the early church and even now, but let us not throw the baby away with the bathwater because of this.

So if you want to be baptised with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, the Holy Spirit will enable you , but if you don’t want it, He will not force it on you.

All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them

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