Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

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Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  ditchwaterdeb on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 4:27 pm

Hello. I am a born again, Protestant Christian (non SDA nor JW) and have been taught (and believe) the doctrine of our souls going to heaven immediately upon death.. Lately, however, I've had some questions regarding this and hope someone has some insight that can help clear some questions up for me...
It seems Paul made a great deal about our bodily resurrection as something to really look forward to for those who put their trust in Jesus. In fact, throughout the new testament a great deal of hope is placed on the bodily resurrection, with Jesus being the first fruits.
If our disembodied soul, immediately goes into the presence of God (where Jesus dwells with his glorified, non disembodied soul, body) then what's the point of pulling the soul away from heaven, back into a glorified body? If we are already present with the Lord, what's the big deal about having a glorified body? From the earliest days of my childhood, I don't recall any preachers or Christians talking about how wonderful it will be to have our resurrection bodies - - we only hear about when we die we will either be in heaven or hell. Why is the body itself of any importance at all once we are in heaven?
Thank you.
Debbie

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 5:12 pm

Dear Debbie

The answer lies in this question; Was Adam and Eve spirits when God punished them of their sin? Adam and Eve were punished and banished from the presence of Heavenly Father as Humans. Both of them left the presence of Heavenly Father in disgrace. Therefore, on resurrection day, we have to turn back in to the same form of Adam and Eve to come back in to presence of Heavenly Father through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ and be glorified. This is what Paul preached to others by giving the example of Jesus Christ.

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  ChristianLady on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 5:44 pm

Why do you doubt when Jesus Himself said it?

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

There are two kinds of responses to our own personal suffering: 1) We can rail against God and say, "If you are such a great and powerful and loving God, why am I in this hellish mess?" 2) Or we can acknowledge that we are sinners and don't deserve any good thing, and cry out for mercy and help in our time of desperation. The world is full of those who rail against God in their self-righteousness and presume that the creator of the universe obliged to make their life smooth. But there are only a few who own up to the fact that God owes us nothing, and that any good to come our way will be due to His mercy, not our merit. I think Luke records this text for us about the two thieves to teach us that there is great reward for responding to suffering like the first sort of person. The two thieves represent these two ways of responding to suffering and relating to Christ in suffering.

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  ditchwaterdeb on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 5:48 pm

Thank you for your response. I am still dull of hearing I think..I appreciate further explanation..Are you saying that we are not in the presence of our Savior until we have our resurrected bodies and become like Adam and Eve were before they sinned? that's the confusion for me at the moment... it makes some sense to think we are not with our Lord until he calls us from the grave -- especially in light of Jesus' words, "I go to prepare a place for you and will come again and receive you unto myself.." if our spirits are already in heaven with him, then what's the big deal about the resurrection body? Why would Jesus tell us he would come again and receive us if we are already with him the moment we die?

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 6:42 pm

Debbie wrote:Are you saying that we are not in the presence of our Savior until we have our resurrected bodies and become like Adam and Eve were before they sinned?
No I did not say that, I said that we were banished from the presence of Heavenly Father, Jesus came to save our souls from hell and bring us back in to the presence of Heavenly Father as Adam and Eve were.

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:8)

Secondly, after Judgment Day who will inherit the earth - spirits or bodies?

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:1-8)

Spirits

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  dove on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 8:56 pm

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:9-11)

Jesus' resurrection means that we are no longer under the dominion of death and more importantly the power of sin. We are now alive in God through what Jesus did. "For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus"

Jesus has given us the opportunity to be at peace with God (Romans 5:1). We are also no longer under God's condemnation, "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18).

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  lovingdove on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 9:09 pm

For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Colossians 1:19-20)

Jesus was made flesh for the very purpose of redeeming all things. Jesus is not abandoning the physical world—He is rescuing it.

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Romans 8:21)

Romans 8:21 tells us that the physical creation will be liberated from its bondage when we are transformed into glory. This salvation involves the "redemption of our bodies" (v. 23).

Yes, our bodies will be redeemed, not discarded. Our bodies will be raised immortal and imperishable, freed from the decay that affects the physical world today. Christ has made it possible, as shown in his own resurrection with a body that transcends the limits of space and time.

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  FaithfulSon on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 9:14 pm

The Bible tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, he will physically raise all those who have died, giving them back the bodies they lost at death.

These will be the same bodies people had in earthly life—but our resurrection bodies will not die and, for the righteous, they will be transformed into a glorified state, freed from suffering and pain, and enabled to do many of the amazing things Jesus could do with his glorified body (1 Cor. 15:35–44, 1 John 3:2).

The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: "If the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13–18).

All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad [Rom. 2:6–11]"

God bless

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  WordofLife on Sat 27 Sep 2008, 9:27 pm

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

I would agree with Daniel, but I want to add my thoughts here. As we can see in Romans, the cause of Death is sin that entered in to this world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. So all will die, with the exception that those who will be alive at the return of Jesus Christ at the end. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). In verse 17: "Then [at His return, and after the resurrection of the dead] we the living, will be taken together with them [the risen dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord" (1 Cor 15:51)

There will be a resurrection of all, as Paul explains in 1Corinthians chapter 15. Those who have been faithful to Christ will rise glorious, their bodies transformed on the model of the risen body of Christ, who could travel instantly at will, could ignore closed doors and come through anyway, but yet had real flesh. St. Paul says the risen body is "spiritual " (15:44). It is still flesh, but such that the flesh is completely dominated by the soul, so that it can no longer suffer or die.

After the resurrection, each of person will have the same body (except for imperfections) that he had in this life. If this involves having the same matter, this is surely within God's power. No matter what happens to the body after death, He can recall and rebuild the material of the body. In fact, we now know that because of metabolism--in which every cell is constantly being torn down and rebuilt--in a normal life span a person has the material for many bodies.

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  ditchwaterdeb on Sun 28 Sep 2008, 12:31 am

I appreciate everyone's comments but I don't feel like my initial question is getting answered. or else I am too dense to grasp it...?? I am not arguing/debating the fact of resurrection bodies, etc.... my question (pondering) is this:
1. If our souls are in heaven when we die, what's the big deal about having a resurrected, glorified, body? What does having a resurrected body add that we aren't already experiencing if we are already in the Kingdom of God upon death?
2. What did Jesus mean when he said, "I go to prepare a place for you..and will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also"... if we are already there with him the moment we die? I mean, aren't our spirits already in the mansion he has prepared or with him the moment we die?
That's what doesn't make sense. I can make some sense out of why some think we don't go to be with Jesus "until" he comes back again and the dead in Christ rise first and then those who remain meet the Lord in the air....

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Re: Soul Sleep and Bodily Resurrection

Post  Waqar Daniel on Sun 28 Sep 2008, 4:17 pm

ditchwaterdeb wrote:1. If our souls are in heaven when we die, what's the big deal about having a resurrected, glorified, body? What does having a resurrected body add that we aren't already experiencing if we are already in the Kingdom of God upon death?

Dear member, you are not dense to grasp the concept, only you cannot get out of the mind set that you have built. I do not know from where you got this idea. I will be answering your questions as you have put and I pray that this time you get it.

If our souls are in heaven when we die, what's the big deal about having a resurrected, glorified, body? What does having a resurrected body add that we aren't already experiencing if we are already in the Kingdom of God upon death?

To understand your question, let us first see how Adam was created.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)

Creation of Adam
Adam was created in body First and after God had breathed breath of life, only then Adam became a living soul. Before breathing life into Adam, he was nothing. Adam was present in bodily form before

Adam loses glory

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24)

Adam lost glory because he along with Eve were driven out of the presence of Heavenly Father. And due to this fall, death came into the world. Adam fell short of glory in body form and not in spirit form.

To reverse the affect of death, that came along with the fall of Adam from his glory, death has to be reversed and death cannot be reversed, if we are not raised up again in body just like Jesus Christ was raised up from the dead.

Satan brought death over all of us by [b]deception
and Jesus took away that curse that was on us. What proof we have? Heavenly Father raised up Jesus Christ from the dead on the third day by His Power and Authority.

ditchwaterdeb wrote:If our souls are in heaven when we die...

You have the wrong concept here because as Jesus Himself said,

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

When Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in the paradise, it did not mean that the thief would be in the presence of Heavenly Father. That he can only achieve when he raised up from the dead and the judgment day has taken place and all those who are called sheep are glorified.

See how we will be glorified

Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God (John 20:17)

For a person to be glorified, that person has to come into the presence of Heavenly Father in the same form in which Adam was driven out of the presence of Heavenly Father.

Remember! Our faith is that Jesus came on earth for our sins, suffered for us, shed His blood on the cross for us, died on the cross for us, was buried, and was raised up from the dead on third day. Even if one of this is missing, then we deny Jesus.

One more thing I would like to request, many people question many things, but I fail to understand, why don't they just follow the commands of God and spend their time in praying because this is a promise of Heavenly Father through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.

Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things that you do not know (Jeremiah 33:)

So please do pray to Heavenly Father through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ to send Holy Spirit on you, so that you may understand any mystery.

God bless you and your family

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