king of Tyrus and the devil

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king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  ericv on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 3:09 pm

Following is scripture describing the king of tyrus, most I talk to assume it's describing Satan. If so, I have a question about their beginning, if not who, is it talking about?

Ezekiel 28

1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

My question: If this is referring to Satan, it says "thou wast perfect in the day thou was created". Yet here's another verse appearantly contridicting this one:

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

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Re: king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  Pastor on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 3:57 pm

This an interesting passage of the Bible and many scholars have different views. I believe that the text talks of demon that brings forth sinfulness in a human being. It talks of satan because with Adam and Eve was satan and not King Tyre. Regarding John 8:44, it also talks of satan. If we look into Genesis, God created everything that was good yet Adam and Eve both fell.

Talking of characteristic of satan as "Murderer from the beginning" refers to deceving Adam and Eve and not beginning of satan.

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Re: king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  Waqar Daniel on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 4:08 pm

Thank you Eric that in your introduction you have cleared that you do not believe that there are any contradictions in the Bible. If you need to understand Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14, then you have to understand the custom of Middle East and how words work as double-edged sword. I would go with Adam Clarke's commentary on Ezekiel 28.

Commentary Adam Clarke
The first part of this chapter relates to a King of Tyre, probably the same who is called in the Phoencian annals Ithobalus. He seems to have been a vain man, who affected Divine honours. The prophet treats his foolish pretensions with severe irony, and predicts his doom, 1-10. He then takes up a funeral dirge and lamentation over him, in which his former pomp and splendour are finely contrasted with his fall, in terms that seem frequently to allude to the fall of Lucifer from heaven, (Isaiah 14.,) 11-19. The overthrow of Sidon, the mother city of Tyre, is next announced, 20-23; and the chapter concludes with a promise to the Jews of deliverance from all their enemies, and particularly of their restoration from the Babylonish captivity, 24-26.

Verse 2. Say unto the prince of Tyrus] But who was this prince of Tyrus? Some think Hiram; some, Sin; some, the devil; others, Ithobaal, with whom the chronology and circumstances best agree. Origen thought the guardian angel of the city was intended.

I am a god] That is, I am absolute, independent, and accountable to none. He was a man of great pride and arrogance.

Verse 3. Thou art wiser than Daniel] Daniel was at this time living, and was reputable for his great wisdom. This is said ironically. See chap. xiv. 14; xxvi. 1.

Verse 5. By thy great wisdom] He attributed every thing to himself; he did not acknowledge a Divine providence. As he got all by himself, so he believed he could keep all by himself, and had no need of any foreign help.

Verse 7. I will bring strangers upon thee] The Chaldeans.

Verse 9. Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee] Wilt thou continue thy pride and arrogance when the sword is sheathed in thee, and still imagine that thou art self- sufficient and independent?

Verse 10. The deaths of the uncircumcised] Two deaths, temporal and eternal. Ithobaal was taken and killed by Nebuchadnezzar.

Verse 12. Thou sealest up] This has been translated, "Thou drawest thy own likeness."Thou formest a portrait of thyself; and hast represented thyself the perfection of wisdom and beauty." I believe this to be the meaning of the place.

Verse 13. Thou hast been in Eden] This also is a strong irony. Thou art like Adam, when in his innocence and excellence he was in the garden of Eden! Every precious stone was thy covering] For a description of these stones see the note on Exod. xxviii. 17.

Verse 14. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth] The irony is continued; and here he is likened to the CHERUB that guarded the gates of Paradise, and kept the way of the tree of life; or to one of the cherubs whose wings, spread out, covered the mercy-seat.

Thou mast upon the holy mountain of God] The irony is still continued; and now he is compared to Hoses, and afterwards to one of the chief angels, who has walked up and down among the stones of fire; that is, thy floors have been paved with precious stones, that shone and sparkled like fire.

Lucan, describing the splendour of the apartments of Cleopatra, queen of Egypt, speaks in pearly a similar language:- Nec summis crustata domus, sectisque nitebat Marmouribus, stabatque sibi non segnis achates, Purpureusque lapis, totusque effusus in aula Calcabatur onyx; Pharsal. lib. x.

Rich as some fane by slavish zealots reared, For the proud banquet stood the hall prepared: Thick golden plates the latent beams infold, And the high roof was fretted o'er with gold.

Of solid marble all the walls were made, And onyx e'en the meaner floor inlaid; While porphyry and agate round the court In massy columns rose, a proud support.

Of solid ebony each post was wrought, From swarthy Meroe profusely brought.

With ivory was the entrance crusted o'er, And polished tortoise hid each shining door; While on the cloudy spots enchased was seen The trusty emerald's never-fading green.

Within the royal beds and couches shone, Beamy and bright with many a costly stone, The glowing purple rich. ROWE.

Verse 15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways] The irony seems still to be kept up. Thou hast been like the angels, like Moses, like the cherubs, like Adam, like God, till thy iniquity was found out.

Verse 16. I will cast thee as profane] Thou shalt be cast down from thine eminence.

From the midst of the stones of fire.] Some, supposing that stones of fire means the stars, have thought that the whole refers to the fall of Satan.

Verse 18. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries] Irony continued. As God, as the angels, as the cherubim, thou must have had thy sanctuaries; but thou hast defiled them: and as Adam, thou hast polluted thy Eden, and hast been expelled from Paradise.

Verse 19. Thou shalt be a terror] Instead of being an object of adoration thou shalt be a subject of horror, and at last be destroyed with thy city, so that nothing but thy name shall remain. It was entirely burnt by Alexander the Great, as it had been before by Nebuchadnezzar.

Verse 22. I am against thee, O Zidon] Sidon for a long time had possessed the empire of the sea and of all Phoenicia, and Tyre was one of its colonies; but in process of time, the daughter became greater than the mother. It seems to have been an independent place at the time in which Tyre was taken; but it is likely that it was taken by the Chaldeans soon after the former.

Verse 23. And the wounded] llj chalal, the soldiery. All its supports shall be taken away, and its defenders destroyed.

Verse 24. There shall be no more a pricking brier] Nothing to excite Israel to idolatry when restored from their captivity. Perhaps there is an allusion to Jezebel, daughter of Ethbaal, king of Sidon, and wife to Ahab, king of Israel, who was the greatest curse to Israel, and the universal restorer of idolatry in the land, see 1 Kings xvi. 31. Sidon being destroyed, there would come no encourager of idolatry from that quarter.

Verse 25. When I shall have gathered the house of Israel] In their long captivity, God had been preparing the land for them so as to make it a safe dwelling; and hence he executed judgments on all the heathen nations round about by means of the Chaldeans. Thus Tyre and Sidon were destroyed, as were the Ammonites and others who had been the inveterate enemies of the Jews. Judgment first began at his own house, then proceeded to the heathen nations; and when they were brought down, then he visited and redeemed his people. Thus God's ways are proved to be all equal; partialities and caprices belong not to him.
I believe that God mocked at King of Tyre through Prophet Ezekiel and compared his fall as the fall of satan from heavens. I hope that you will also share your understanding on Ezekiel 28.


Last edited by Waqar Daniel on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 4:29 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  ChristianLady on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 4:22 pm

Ezekiel 28:1-19
Ethbaal, or Ithobal, was the prince or king of Tyre; and being lifted up with excessive pride, he claimed Divine honours. Pride is peculiarly the sin of our fallen nature. Nor can any wisdom, except that which the Lord gives, lead to happiness in this world or in that which is to come. The haughty prince of Tyre thought he was able to protect his people by his own power, and considered himself as equal to the inhabitants of heaven. If it were possible to dwell in the garden of Eden, or even to enter heaven, no solid happiness could be enjoyed without a humble, holy, and spiritual mind. Especially all spiritual pride is of the devil. Those who indulge therein must expect to perish.

Ezekiel 28:20-26
The Zidonians were borderers upon the land of Israel, and they might have learned to glorify the Lord; but, instead of that, they seduced Israel to the worship of their idols. War and pestilence are God's messengers; but he will be glorified in the restoring his people to their former safety and prosperity. God will cure them of their sins, and ease them of their troubles. This promise will at length fully come to pass in the heavenly Canaan: when all the saints shall be gathered together, every thing that offends shall be removed, all griefs and fears for ever banished. Happy, then, is the church of God, and every living member of it, though poor, afflicted, and despised; for the Lord will display his truth, power, and mercy, in the salvation and happiness of his redeemed people.

Mathew Henry

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Re: king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  ericv on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 5:07 pm

Hi pastor,
Talking of characteristic of satan as "Murderer from the beginning" refers to deceving Adam and Eve and not beginning of satan.

This is what I hold to also, thnx for that.

Hi Waqar Daniel,
Thank you Eric that in your introduction you have cleared that you do not believe that there are any contradictions in the Bible.

Thanks for noting that, it makes a much more pleasant discussion when we know we're trying to work together for good. BTW, thanks for the warm welcome.

If you need to understand Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14, then you have to understand the custom of Middle East and how words work as double-edged sword. I would go with Adam Clarke's commentary on Ezekiel 28.

That was an awesome read, well explained! Thanks, that was a real blessing.

You folks are too good, must have been at this for some time. Very Happy I'm going to enjoy the fellowship here.....I can sense it.

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Re: king of Tyrus and the devil

Post  FaithfulSon on Mon 09 Feb 2009, 8:07 pm

Welcome brother Eric and thank you for your encouraging words. I also hope that we will all learn from your blessed wisdom every time you write something to instruct us all. It is so wonderful to learn from each other.

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